The Instigator
4God
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Varrack
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points

You can be a Christian and believe in evolution

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Varrack
Voting Style: Open with Elo Restrictions Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/3/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 640 times Debate No: 71017
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (2)

 

4God

Con

I will be debating that you can't be a Christian and still believe in evolution. First round is to accept the challenge.
Varrack

Pro

I accept this debate. As Con, my opponent must properly negate the resolution to win.

Because evolution is such a broad word with various definitions, it requires one for the context of this debate. Evolution shall be defined as "the major evolutionary transition from one type of organism to another, such as the evolution of apes to humans."

I await Con's opening arguments.
Debate Round No. 1
4God

Con

I will start my this round by providing sources from the Bible(NKJV) to support my argument.

1. God created all animals that walk on the earth and then created man separately in His own image with the intent that man would have dominion over every other living thing on earth . This is clearly stated in Genesis 1:24-28:
24 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind"; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

2. The Bible states that everything created by God was given power to reproduce its own kind. (Genesis 7:14) No one thing could break this law and produce any other kind. A sponge is still a sponge and has not become an oyster, a turtle, frog, fish or crab. None of these have reproduced anything except their own kind. The crossing of an donkey and a mare, for instance, will produce a mule which cannot reproduce itself. No ape has ever produced a man and the "missing-link" is still missing and always will be.

3. Evolutionists say that man evolved from apes because we are so similar, therefore, we have to have come from the same ancestor. Resemblance proves nothing but resemblance, just as similarity proves nothing but similarity.

So if you"re a Christian and believe in evolution you are contradicting yourself, the Bible, and God"s word.
Varrack

Pro

Thank you for instigating this debate 4God. I shall rebut my opponent's arguments, but first must make a couple points:

(1) You can be Christian without interpreting the Old Testament in such a literal sense.
(2) Having contradictory views do not mean that you cannot hold those views, it just means that holding those views is illogical.

R1) Genesis 1

Con does not quite specify here exactly how the first chapter of the Bible shows that evolution cannot be compatible with Christian teachings. The Bible does not state how God created the plants and animals, it only states that he did. Since the Bible does not say how God created anything, it doesn't make sense to say that he for sure didn't do it a certain way.

Many Christian evolutionists believe that evolution progressed to the point that neanderthals were human enough for God to introduce the human spirit into them. In other words, when the Neanderthals' bodies had evolved to the point that the homosapien could exist, God created Adam by "breathing into his nostrils the breath of life" that uniquely made him the first man. This is not all contradictory to the Genesis account of the creation.

R2) Reproduction

Con demonstrates a misunderstanding of evolution. A frog does not reproduce with another frog to create an entirely different animal, the original animal evolves over millions of years to do natural processes to the point where they become different. A frog cannot biologically create a different animal, but over an extensive period of time when the frog has changed, it is no longer what it used to be. Evolution doesn't happen overnight, it happens over millions of years, and in periods that are way more extensive than any of our lifetimes.

R3) Resemblance

The fact that humans and apes are so similar shows that it is likely that the two could share a common ancestor. The genes of humans and apes have been found to be 96% similar[1], showing that the belief that a common ancestor occurred somewhere along the line millions of years is not something bizarre.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com...
Debate Round No. 2
4God

Con

I was contemplating about putting scientific facts in my debate, but since this is a religious debate, I don't need to. If you're a Christian then you don't need scientific facts, you just need the Bible.

(1) You can be Christian without interpreting the Old Testament in such a literal sense.

I interpret the Bible in such a literal sense because it is the only true word of God. Just because the Bible was written long ago, doesn't mean we can"t still learn lessons from the Bible, that we can't still teach from the Bible. It's the only book we can actually know is true.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)
Just like the song "The Word" by Sara Groves.

(2) Having contradictory views doesn't mean that you cannot hold those views; it just means that holding those views is illogical.

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what you're trying to say here. If you're saying that your views aren't the same as the Bible, then?

1. I specified quite clearly on how the first chapter of the Bible shows that evolution can't be compatible with Christian teachings. If God wanted man to evolve from an animal, then why did he even create man? Why not just create the apes and leave it at that? The Bible says that God just spoke and it happened. That is how he created the plants and animals. All he had to do was speak and it was so.

2. What you're saying is that evolution doesn't happen overnight, it happens over millions of years, so why haven"t any apes changed into a human yet. If it takes millions of years, at least a few apes should be human, right?

Nothing about evolution makes sense. Scientists can change results to promote their agenda, but they can't change what the Bible says, what God says. Evolution was just made up so people didn't have to admit that God actually made us. Just like the Big Bang Theory, no one wants to admit God made the universe, He made us, He made animals, and He made everything. So many people in our society today don't want to believe in God, they don't want to admit that there is someone better than them, that someone made them, that they will have to face Him one day and actually admit He exists.
Evolution involving man and apes has never existed, it's just another lie for people who do not believe in God.

I enjoyed this debate and wish you luck on your closing argument. :)
Varrack

Pro

Thanks for the arguments Con.

Resolution

According to the resolution of this debate, Con isn't supposed to be arguing that evolution and Christian and views are contradictory, but rather that one cannot hold both views. As I pointed out in the last round, one can still hold contradictory views. Con's position is saying that one cannot hold both views at the same time, but many people already hold both views. In fact, about 1 in 4 Americans believe God guided evolution[1], so Con's stance on the subject is a bit illogical. However, since Con seems to be arguing that the two views are contradictory, I will address those points. The judges must keep in mind though that the Con position of this resolution is virtually impossible to uphold.

Literalism

Many Christians interpret the Bible in a very literal sense, such as believing that the world was created in 24-hour 7 day period and that the world is 7,000 years old (young earth creationism). Others believe in a scientific interpretation of the Old Testament, such as that the world was created in a period of millions of years and that the plants and animals of the world were created through the natural processes of macroevolution (theistic evolution). Even if one believes in the literal interpretation, that doesn't mean that the other interpretations are contradictory, or rather that those people cannot hold those views.

Genesis 1

Theistic evolutionists have a range of beliefs of how Adam and Eve came to be. One belief is that Adam and Eve were not literal humans, but represented humanity when homosapiens had developed a certain level of awareness and intelligence that made them able to have a level of understanding to comprehend God, unlike the near-human Neanderthals. Another belief is that when Neanderthals had evolved far enough, God saw that it was time was fit for Adam and Eve to inhabit human-like bodies. Either way, neither of these views contradict the Genesis account, or at least not the very literal creationist interpretation of Genesis 1.

"If God wanted man to evolve from an animal, then why did he even create man?"

"Why" is irrelevant to this topic. If we were to discuss "why", we would branch off into an entirely different topic that has nothing to do with evolution and Christianity.

"The Bible says that God just spoke and it happened."

The fact that the Bible says "God spoke" does not mean that life occurred immediately. Even if it does, 2 Peter 3:8 tells us that God's perception of time is different than ours: "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

Reproduction

"What you're saying is that evolution doesn't happen overnight, it happens over millions of years, so why haven"t any apes changed into a human yet. If it takes millions of years, at least a few apes should be human, right?"

I'm not sure what you're asking here. I initially said that because evolution is a process that takes millions of years, then the misconception that a "dog simply turned into a donkey" is false. I showed above how the Biblical account of the creation and the evolutionary theory are both compatible.

Resemblance

Con drops this argument and goes on a rant about how evolution is a lie without providing any evidence to back up this assertion.

Conclusion

I have refuted all of my opponent's objections and have established that the Genesis account of the world's beginning and the evolutionary account are not contradictory if the Biblical account is not taken too literal. Even so, one can still hold contradictory beliefs, which is why it is impossible for Con to uphold that stance successfully.

Source

[1] http://www.pewresearch.org...
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Blazzered 1 year ago
Blazzered
@deathstrokeisbrett I dunno how to break this to you....but evolution is PROVEN. Also you do realize that mix breeding would be a mechanism of evolution right? Have you done no research on evolution? Do you know all the mechanisms of evolution? Natural Selection, Artificial Selection, etc. the Christians who accept evolution as fact, believe Genesis is supposed to be taken metaphorical, otherwise I can tell you that the book of Genesis is disproven by evolution since it contradicts how species came to be (don't get my words mixed with abiogenesis) and evolution is, again, PROVEN.
Also the Big Bang being in the bible can't be true, because the bible clearly states that God created the earth before he created light. This would mean the earth was created BEFORE the Big Bang, which wouldn't make sense since the Big Bang is what created the planets, and stars, etc.
Also South Park parodies everything. Even the most controversial things. 9/11, Muhammad, Saddam, etc. and they've even made fun of religion on several bases. Just look at how they depict God, Jesus, and Satan....Also that episode where South Park made fun of evolution, they were making it come from a creationist point of view, they were making fun of how creationists depict evolution. They were not making fun of evolution.
Posted by deathstrokeisbrett 1 year ago
deathstrokeisbrett
my father says that there is a possibility that when god said "let there be light" he created the big bang, but not EVOLUTION
Posted by deathstrokeisbrett 1 year ago
deathstrokeisbrett
i believe that the only way an animal would have changed is NOT through EVOLUTION. But through cross breading or when one animal has sex with another that is born with a disability, even south park agrees with this, it says that a frog decided to f*ck with a retarded frog creating the lizard and a lizard f*cked a tadpole creating the snake and blablablablabalbabalbalba
Posted by deathstrokeisbrett 1 year ago
deathstrokeisbrett
you cannot be evolutionist and christian, never in the bible it says that adam's hairy tail was taken off of adam and made into eve, it says that his rib was taken,
Posted by britkit_francis 2 years ago
britkit_francis
Hey man

I'm asking people to finish my buddies realerthanlifeJK debates because he lost his account.

you can finish the debate through the comments.
Posted by Blazzered 2 years ago
Blazzered
"Theistic evolution" is all that is really needed to be said. Evolution mixing with religion.
Man and apes share similarity though DNA, which is why we believe it is possible we evolved from apes. Plus the fossil evidence we have of homo erectus, homo habilis, Neanderthal, etc.
What religious people can't believe in is abiogenesis, and that's because that subject is about life coming from non-life.
Posted by missmedic 2 years ago
missmedic
Con you can be a Christian and believe in evolution, because faith can be used to justify and defend absolutely anything on an equal " and equally unreasonable " basis, no proof or understanding is needed, only belief.
Pro if you think that humans evolved from apes, you do not understand evolution.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Robert_Weiler 2 years ago
Robert_Weiler
4GodVarrackTied
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Reasons for voting decision: All in all, this was a pretty disappointing debate. Neither side used very strong arguments, or properly supported their arguments with reliable sources. There are much better arguments on both sides of this debate and those were tragically lacking.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
4GodVarrackTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro did a good job refuting Con's arguments by pointing out the Bible doesn't say HOW God created everything. So arguments to Pro. Only Pro had sources, so sources to Pro.