The Instigator
ClintS
Pro (for)
Winning
15 Points
The Contender
Superboy777
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points

You can be pro gay and believe Being Gay Is A Choice

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/11/2011 Category: Science
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,189 times Debate No: 14363
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (5)

 

ClintS

Pro

When I hear a person say, "being gay is a choice so if you chose to be gay you choose to be evil" I'm really not surprised that this kind of person would make such a error, but when I hear the rebuttal, "Why would you hate someone for something they didn't choose to be" I get taken aback. After hearing these two statements I find myself wondering which argument I should side on. The problem with the first statement is that there is no reason to believe that being gay is harmful to anybody in any shape or form and I agree with the second statement on that you shouldn't hate anybody, but if being gay is truly harmful then you should want to change it. These arguments are filled with inefficiencies. One is claiming a position that is unsubstantiated i.e. being gay is harmful and the other is implying a non sequitur i.e. being gay is a choice so it is okay to be gay.
I will not delve into why the first argument is wrong because showing the fallacies of the second would further my point easier. The main problem with the second argument is that the conclusion(being gay is okay) can be right or wrong with the implied premise being true(being gay is not choice). If being gay was truly harmful the fact that it being a choice or not will only point us in the direction of how to fix the problem. What I mean by this is if being gay is solely determined by genes that would mean that we would have to find a genetic solution, assuming that being gay is destructive. The same thing goes if you think being gay is a choice, that would mean you have to rehabilitate the person.
This assumption that if you think people have a choice in their sexual orientation means that your against homosexuals comes from a time when people thought being homosexual was a mental disorder, so to take the blame off of the person they would say they didn't choose to be gay. Obviously this no longer applies now.The ability to chose one's sexual orientation is a matter of nature vs nurture and has nothing to say on whether homosexuality is negative. So, for all those self righteous gay activist who catch a hissy fit when I say being gay is a choice please shut up because you don't know what you are talking about. Being gay has a neutral to positive impact and the fact that it is a choice does not hurt the lgbt movement at all.
Superboy777

Con

I thought I was pro :(
I am rather confused on my opponent's argument but I guess i will refute it. Personally, I have never heard anyone say why they should hate someone for something they did not choose to be. In this website, http://www.guardian.co.uk... researchers have found out that there are chromosomal differences between people who are gay and their genes. For more information ,refer to the source. Now if my opponent agrees, can we change the debate to that being gay is a choice and is destructive? My opponent's logic currently better fits this resolution. I am not against people who are gay, but I believe that there is more to it than just a choice. Gays used to be persecuted, but now they are accepted in society. Even at a time when gays would be persecuted, if they had a choice, many people wouldn't choose to be gay. Thus, I believe that gay is not so much a choice and instead is much more complicated that that and involves genetics.

In this website: http://www.guardian.co.uk... it says how researchers have proven that being gay is not a choice.

-Thank you
I ask my opponent to clarify his points as opposed to the rambling. No offense.
Debate Round No. 1
ClintS

Pro

This debate is really only a discussion on one point:
I pose the argument that holding the stance that "being gay is a choice" is not contradictory to the position that "being gay is non problematic." Unlike the position that homosexual christians take thinking their god doesn't condemn them(meaning their god accepts them without repenting). Furthering my position, I previously tried to clarify that providing "being gay is a choice" as a premise and "therefore being homosexual is okay" as your conclusion is essentially stating a fallacious argument. The conclusion does not logically follow the premise. This is all to exemplify the point that one can be Pro or anti-gay(the belief that homosexuality is destructive) without it also entailing a fixed position on whether being gay is a choice(the fixed positions being; pro gay must believe no choice and anti gay must believe in choice).

Yes, I stated that being gay is a choice(never clarifying to what degree), but this debate is not focused on that discussion. It is focused on the argument I explained above. I will be glad to have a debate on whether being homosexual is harmful and also to what degree being gay is a choice; however, I would like to hear a rebuttal to the one I put forward.

Hopefully that explains everything.
Superboy777

Con

Ok. If one looks at the resolution, and I as the con side, it can be You can be pro gay and not believe that being gay is a choice. I for one have no prejudice against gays but I in fact believe that being gay is not a choice and more to do with the genetics of the individual. If one refers to my previous source, it cements my idea that people who are gay are just different, but not inferior nor superior but people who are gay have a different mentality to their sexuality. Thus, this defies the resolution that one can b pro gay and not believe that being gay is a choice. :)

- Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
ClintS

Pro

I understand my description of the debate was not very clear, but I do believe I clarified myself in the second round. My opponent was given the task of showing that "being pro gay" is contradictory to "believing gay is a choice". Showing that one can be pro gay and not believe being gay is a choice does not deride the resolution, but further exemplifies my point, which is that there is no mutual exclusivity between any position of "nature vs nurture" and "pro vs anti gay(gay is destructive)".

Even though we got off to a rocky start I still enjoyed the debate. Good luck in the voting and I will be happy to participate in any future debates.
Superboy777

Con

Ok, then. This has mainly just been rambling. Since my opponent is the instigator, he has the burden of proof. While he has eventually stated his opinion and defined the resolution in the third round, he has failed to provide any real proof and has instead imposed this on me. As the con side, I have to negate the resolution, which I did in round 2 and he has failed to provide any rebuttal to this. While this debate has mainly been a failure due to the absence of him providing any real proof, I believe that he has not actually presented any arguments on the fact that someone can be pro gay and believe gay is a choice. I on the other hand, first set out to source a study linking homosexuality to genetics and then offered a con side in which he did not provide a rebuttal to. All and all, vote con.

-Thank you
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by ciphermind 6 years ago
ciphermind
None of the arguments were coherent at all.

Also this debate is comparable to a topic which says "You can like pizza, and simultaneously think people can choose to eat pizza"

It's true.
Posted by rogue 6 years ago
rogue
I had to vote pro because even though his arguments didn't make much sense, the resolution was "You can be pro gay and still think that being gay is a choice". The fact that he is pro gay and thinks that being gay is a choice proves that statement. Con can't change that. I gave con the sources vote since he was the only one that used sources, and the conduct vote going along with the debate even though he was not on the side he wanted to be on.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by sydnerella 6 years ago
sydnerella
ClintSSuperboy777Tied
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Vote Placed by XimenBao 6 years ago
XimenBao
ClintSSuperboy777Tied
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Vote Placed by boomeranghugs 6 years ago
boomeranghugs
ClintSSuperboy777Tied
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Vote Placed by Justin-L 6 years ago
Justin-L
ClintSSuperboy777Tied
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Vote Placed by rogue 6 years ago
rogue
ClintSSuperboy777Tied
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Total points awarded:33