The Instigator
dthmstr254
Pro (for)
Losing
15 Points
The Contender
soundman
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

You cannot lose your salvation as a Christian

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/23/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,322 times Debate No: 2146
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (13)

 

dthmstr254

Pro

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have ETERNAL life.

John 10

27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

(NIV)

The key word in the first is ETERNAL. Our Eternal describes life in that phrase. This means that the life will never end. In the second passage, Jesus preaches that nobody can snatch a Christian from His hand. Throughout the Bible, it states many times that we cannot lose our salvation.
soundman

Con

While it is true that you cannot be "snatched" from Christ's hand.....you can leave it. Christ will not force you to stay, but if you leave the eternal protection of his fold, you have left it. Now, you can easily return. Just like with the prodigal son, he was no longer supported or protected by his father as long as he was away from his father's house. Only as long as he stayed with his father was he under that protection. His father (a personification of God) was waiting eagerly to embrace his son....but he didn't run off after him, or protect him anywhere he went. The son (a metaphor for humanity) was capable of making his own decisions, and he did.
Debate Round No. 1
dthmstr254

Pro

However, in Romans, Paul makes the statement that were are brought into the "spirit of adoption" by God. He was speaking to Romans as he did the rest of them. He spoke to the Corinthians making athletic metaphors, because there were major athletic events held there. In Romans, he specifically uses the part about adoption for a spefific reason. In Roman law, adoption was impossible to undo. Whatever the adopter or adopted did or wanted to do, the adopted would in no way lose the inheritance as a son of the adopter. Our inheritance through Christ is salvation, and based on Paul's use of that metaphor, there is no way to lose that.

We are brought into the family of God in three ways: New birth, adoption, and marriage. We are literally, as Christians, fiance to Christ. We are holding the marriage ceremony at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, we were adopted through Jesus's death on the cross, and we were born again through His ressurection from the grave, which proved His Deity. Adoption is permanent, we cannot remove that we are born again, and marriage is binding. That is a recipe for surefootedness.
soundman

Con

God gives mankind free-will. If in that free-will, a person walks away from God, God does not still force this person to go to heaven. Your marriage metaphor....there is an exception given to the covenant of marriage in Leviticus, marital unfaithfulness. Using the same logic, anyone who leaves God to worship other gods i.e. Buddha, Allah, or even themselves, is guilty of spiritual unfaithfulness. Therefore the covenant is broken. Not by God, but by us, which is what is meant by scripture. God will not revoke salvation. This doesn't mean that we cannot leave it. You must be careful how you interpret scripture, and do not put words into God's mouth. While it would be nice if anyone who was saved could go on to do whatever they wanted and not suffer for it, this is not scripturally sound. This runs contrary to the whole concept of salvation, which is us choosing Christ and loving Him, and spending eternity with him.
Debate Round No. 2
dthmstr254

Pro

A. I did not put words in his mouth. The logic continues from what is true and stated in the Bible. If you follow the following:

A. God saved us. (WHosoever calls on the name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED)
B. God has our salvation in safekeeping from men (no MAN can pluck you out of my hand)
C. We are men. (I think that is obvious)

Conclusion: We, as men, cannot revoke our own salvation

You did not answer the metaphor in Romans. What of the fact that Paul was speaking by Roman law (at least the Bible says that is what he did. "To the greeks, I become as a Greek, to the Jews, as a Jew, to those with law as under the law, and to those without a law as without law."). Therefore, it is safe to believe that the Bible also meant that "to the Romans, I (Paul) became as a Roman." As I said before, Roman law prohibited either party of an adoption from revoking the birthright of the adopted son or daughter.

Also, God has said that He would rather bring a person home (Heaven) before He let them revoke their salvation (Saying that he would let the consequences take effect instead of let a straying Christian fall out). I believe firmly that one will be going home before they do so much their salvation is null and void.
soundman

Con

soundman forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by dthmstr254 9 years ago
dthmstr254
in correct. Your secure position refers to our position of fellowship with God. Sin seperates us from the fellowship with God as it would be if one sins against their earthly father. It doesn't make them any less the sons of God than a sin against your earthly father makes you not his son.
Posted by nebosleeper 9 years ago
nebosleeper
Twisted.....Where is that scripture located that states such a case. Impact, that is true nothing u do will ever make him stop loving you, but you can still choose to not love him. Once saved always saved is unbiblical. Was Judas not a Christian before he betrayed Jesus? Of course he was.....Look at 2 peter 3 last four or so verses...says something of the sort that peole were SAVED, and then LOST...
Posted by Twisted_Juliet420 9 years ago
Twisted_Juliet420
If a Christian loses their salvation, then they weren't saved in the first place.
Posted by impactyourworld89 9 years ago
impactyourworld89
I came accross this and thought it would help.

Romans 8:38
And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate u from his love. Death can't, and life can't. The angels can't and the demons can't. Our fears for today, our worries about tomorrow and even the powers of hell can't keep God's love away.
Posted by dthmstr254 9 years ago
dthmstr254
Notice how while Simon's followers believed in Christ, Simon believed in the powers and signs exhibited by the apostles. He tried to buy the ability to do those miracles, and that is why they told him to repent. One cannot buy one's way into heaven, he must only accept the gift that salvation is.
Posted by nebosleeper 9 years ago
nebosleeper
you can lose your salvation according to Acts Chapter 8... when simon tried to by the power of the holy spirit they told him to repent....why?
Posted by Cobjob 9 years ago
Cobjob
I think you are both right. If you lose your salvation it is because you never really had it. Our finite minds make us view things within the time/space paradigm, God sees things differently. This could also go the route of Erasmus v. Luther, do we choose salvation or does salvation choose us?
Posted by dthmstr254 9 years ago
dthmstr254
Ok, it did send that round in. I would have been irked if it sent an empty page.

My computer decided to turn off without warning before the page loaded after I sent the round in. How frustrating is that?
13 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by matthewleebrown14 8 years ago
matthewleebrown14
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Vote Placed by soundman 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by DrewM 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Twisted_Juliet420 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by impactyourworld89 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by dthmstr254 9 years ago
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