The Instigator
Xenoes
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
famousdebater
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

You choose

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
famousdebater
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/28/2016 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 248 times Debate No: 91996
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (3)

 

Xenoes

Pro

You choose the topic as this will be my first debate here and I can't think of any ideas to debate.

I would like to debate almost anything within the topics of science, religion, or politics.

First round will be acceptance.
Second presentation of arguments
Third will be counters
fourth refutation of counters and final words

No new arguments will be presented in the final round.
famousdebater

Con

I accept. The topic is: The USFG should ban abortion. You are Pro. I am Con.
Debate Round No. 1
Xenoes

Pro

Xenoes forfeited this round.
famousdebater

Con

Observations

OBV 1 - The BOP is shared in this debate. I must demonstrate that abortion shouldn't be banned in the US, whereas my opponent must prove that abortion should be banned.

OBV 2 - Since the BOP is shared this ultimately means that we must both provide a case which should attempt to prove our positions in the debate (as stated in observation 1). If we manage to prove our position to be true this means that we win the debate. Since both our positions conflict (I believe in allowing abortions; my oponent believes in banning it), this means that only one of us can prove our positions to be correct in this debate. Whoever does this wins.


Framework


My framework will be centered around libertarianism. Within libertarianism, there is controversy on abortions because it depends on if the fetus is alive. If the fetus is alive then libertarians are against abortions because libertarians are individualists and therefore value the life of the individual heavily [1]. If the fetus is not alive then libertarians advocate abortion because libertarians belief in a less powerful and restrictive government. In our first contention we will prove the fetus to be living. I will explain why we should have an abortion under libertarian belief.


Capitalism magazine explains this by saying,


“A fetus does not have a right to be in the womb of any woman, but is there by her permission. This permission may be revoked by the woman at any time, because her womb is part of her body... There is no such thing as the right to live inside the body of another, i.e., there is no right to enslave... a woman is not a breeding pig owned by the state (or church).” [2]


She is the individual that libertarians prioritize, due to their individualist beliefs [2]. Since libertarians believe in a less restrictive government, the outcome is clear. The government should NOT be involved in something so personal to the person since by intervening in this person’s choice, you are restricting them and are violating libertarian ideology [3].


You ought to buy the libertarian framework because this debate is based on a law change and a law change should be in the people’s best interest as well as the government's. With the less restrictive government the people’s choices must be respected and considered.


The Fetus Is Not Alive


Only 1.4% of abortions occur after 21 weeks into the pregnancy [3,4]. This means that that most abortions are done before the fetus is even formed. It is an embryo, and an embryo is proven to be not alive. It isn't a subject of discussion when talking about the embryo [5].

I will now address the fetus - which is mitigated due to the small percentage of abortions that occur at this period.

There are 7 categories in which life can be identified. The categories have been compiled by biologists over a long period of time with great discussion. The fetus only meets 2 of these when, in order to classify it as living, it must meet all of them [6].

Movement - The fetus can move so this part is met.

Respiration - The fetus cannot respire on its own [7].

Sensitivity - The fetus cannot sense at 24 weeks or even 28 weeks [8].

Growth - The fetus does grow.

Reproduction - Whilst it is a fetus, no it cannot reproduce [9].

Excretion - This is possible however very rare and unlikely [10].

Nutrition - The fetus cannot independently take in nutrition.

If one of these wasn’t met then the fetus would not be considered alive. The fetus was only able to meet 2. Ergo, the fetus is not living. If the fetus is not living then a termination is not detrimental to society and it does not act as a law violation (ie. murder).

Even if the fetus is alive, you still ought to presume Con.

“the "right to life" doesn’t imply a right to use somebody else’s body. People have the right to refuse to donate their organs, for example, even if doing so would save somebody else’s life.” [19]

You ought to vote Con based on this premise alone.


Illegal Abortions


When an abortion is legal there is absolutely no point in having an illegal abortion because they have been proven to be very dangerous and expensive. If abortion are legal then illegal abortions will negatively correlate [11]. These illegal abortions have been known to kill both the mother and the baby and sometimes result in extreme suffering on the mother’s part [11]. Mothers are not doctors (most of the time) so these illegal abortions also occur later than 24 (and even 28) weeks meaning that the babies suffer too [11]!

Did you know:

“13% of pregnancy-related deaths worldwide are related to complications of unsafe abortion.” [12]

This statistic is shocking but demonstrates my point very well. These unsafe abortions are illegal and this is what is currently happening because abortions are illegal in places. They have no option to a safe abortion and are so desperate for abortion that they attempt to have an unsafe abortion. Therefore, we can conclude that there are a huge number of unsafe abortions (13% of all pregnancy related deaths). From this we can then follow up an argument suggesting that making abortions illegal will not necessarily get rid of all abortions therefore rendering our opponent’s aim to be mitigated.


Underaged teenagers

“19% of teens who have had sexual intercourse become pregnant each year. 78% of these pregnancies are unplanned. 6 in 10 teen pregnancies occur among 18-19 year olds.” [12]

This statistic is significant for many reasons. If this occurs amongst 18 - 19 year olds then this is extremely bad. Having to look after and care for a child ruins their chances of going to university. Your twenties are your most important period of your lives according to many sources [13,14,15]. Whilst this is still arguably subjective there are also many reasons as to why you should view your twenties as the most important reason in your life objectively. Having to look after a child in this period of time is extremely stressful and prevents you from getting proper qualifications and more importantly, it prevents you from getting a full time job and a house [22]. Children are extremely expensive to have and having a child at the time when you should be looking for a job makes income problematic. On top of this you will have to pay huge amounts of money.

“To raise a child born in 2013 to the age of 18, it will cost a middle-income couple just over $245,000, according to newly released estimates from the U.S. Department of Agriculture. That's up $4,260, or almost 2%, from the year before.”[16]

Now let's compare this to the average income of a family:

“The typical U.S. households pulls in $51,371 per year.” [21]

Teenage parents are most likely to make a lot less than this but let's take this statistic anyway. Assuming that this ‘average’ family spend no money at all on anything. It will still cost them almost 5 times their yearly income to equate to that amount. Of course they will need food, clothes, mortgage, heating, electricity etc. on top of this sum of money.

If this seems like a lot you should double the cost of a child figures (assuming that they have another child), what will you do then? Not allow an abortion? Allow these teengagers to pay almost $500,000, earning (most likely) less than $51,371 per year.

Conclusion

I have provided strong and well sourced evidence proving that if you ban abortion you violate libertarianism, the rights of teenagers / children, it also violates the law, it happens anyway, and people die. The resolution is negated. Vote Con!


Sources in external link which is allowed (see the rules in R1):http://www.debate.org...
Debate Round No. 2
Xenoes

Pro

Xenoes forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Xenoes

Pro

Xenoes forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by famousdebater 6 months ago
famousdebater
It's cool.
Posted by Xenoes 6 months ago
Xenoes
To famousdebater, I apologize for forfeiting the first round and those thereafter. But unfortunately, events in my personal life has risen up preventing me from continuing this debate. I apologize as I was looking forward to debating with you and I hope you understand.
Posted by Xenoes 6 months ago
Xenoes
Yes, that's an option however I'd like to know what the topic is beforehand.
Posted by famousdebater 6 months ago
famousdebater
I'm assuming we post the topic in r1, correct?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 5 months ago
lannan13
XenoesfamousdebaterTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con presented his arguments in Round 2 on abortion, but Pro had forfeited every single round, leaving all of Con's arguments being dropped. For that, I have to award the arguments points to Con.
Vote Placed by fire_wings 5 months ago
fire_wings
XenoesfamousdebaterTied
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Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by kasmic 5 months ago
kasmic
XenoesfamousdebaterTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con present's an argument. As Pro forfeited every round arguments to con. Conduct also for the forfeits.