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You deserve no credit for 'Finding God'

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/8/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 339 times Debate No: 80718
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
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If I had a pound for every person who declared that they had 'found God' I would indeed be a rich man.
Many of these people subscribe to the Biblical Faiths.

Let us consider this declaration within the context of this 'Hide and Seek' Biblical God.

Check out your doctrines before you challenge me on this.

If God revealed himself then what credit is due to you?
If you found a 'concealed' God then tell us where/how you found him/it.

Let me give you a scenario that you can consider.

I am an entrenched atheist. If a Biblical God or anything remotely resembling same revealed itself to me then would my acceptance of same be worthy fare for my salvation. If I stumbled on this God inadvertently then surely I should be able to direct people to it.

If a child runs in from the garden declaring that they have found a caterpillar, then instantly they will respond to my request to show me where it is. Isn't it that simple. I think it is.

What is this 'finding God' about in your 'neck of the woods' I want to offer you kudos if you deserve it.


Zeromeansnothing, I would like to thank you for accepting his debate challenge.

My name is Gordon Jospeh Thomas Fiala, and I fancy myself to be the false Prophet ~ yes the very same.
I have come to my faith naturally as a child without incentive and philosophized Hinduism before I had recognition of the church. Having read the Bhagavad Gita, I was assured Hinduism is in fact 100% monotheist, and that no other deities or demigods (as gods are not hinud) have personalities or bodies of their own, but are a portion of Lord Krishna, to whom they are like freckles, hairs and cells of his Cosmic being { Krishna is the only God in Hinduism and gods are not in any way comparable entities in any of the worlds religions, and never have been believed to be by any religious people. }.

As we progress, I am going to encourage you to not be belligerent by suggesting: that people who think they are Christians are Christians; who want to be Christians are Christians; that say they are Christians are Christians; or who act like they are Christians are Christians. You loose by default if you are so incapable of comprehending Faith that you use agnostics as examples for people who "found God".

Regarding The difficulty of revealing God to unfaithful disbelievers, this will be a truly wonderful experience for us both; given I love to do just that, while you are Begging for it.

With further-a-due
I will be presenting Science, which I doubt has reached your ears,
historical anomalies,
modern cultural activities and influences,
philosophies that exist in all renowned world cultures,
and present my own personal experiences and Efforts.

You loose by default. Because you are incapable of actually holding your ground in this debate;
Ludwigs 7th law of Philosophy: you cannot stipulate about that, where you are not.
You are ignorant and thus able to present no evidence.

I will accept your first submission as soon as you like.
Thank you,

my Regards
ArcaneUnit { remember the name }
Debate Round No. 1


Arcane Unit (?) states :You loose by default. Because you are incapable of actually holding your ground in this debate;
Ludwigs 7th law of Philosophy: you cannot stipulate about that, where you are not.
You are ignorant and thus able to present no evidence.

I agree with you, I am at a disadvantage here. I do not know where Lord Krishna is but you say that you do. I will not say a bad word about him because I am ignorant of his ways . Show me and I will be eternally grateful. I am really looking forward to this especially the following items on your menu.

historical anomalies,

modern cultural activities and influences,

philosophies that exist in all renowned world cultures,

Ready, Steady, Go! (If you please)



I will begin with Historical Anomalies:
The arc of the Covenant was said to be taken by the Egyptians to Egypt when the ransacked the Temped Solomon commissioned to b built, which was an upside down pyramid. The Arc of the Covenant had cherubs on top, which had wings extending to each-other point to point, with animal heads. This is approximately when and where in history the Egyptian runes reflected this culture.
King Neco was reported to have been fighting wars against Babylon after that in the name of God, and defeated the Israelites when they in their pagan days lashed out at Egypt for crossing by their southern boarders.
The arc was said to kill people who touched the golden casket.

The Greeks had previously stolen the Arc of the Covenant causing grievous earthquakes when they took it from the Temple of Solomon's commission,
which accurately dates back to the technological era; of which the Runes that have been discovered in Greece to be buried sum 30+ feet under the ground would have been built. Since many buried cities were found in that region not far north from where the arc was taken too before being returned.

The Bible records a Creature known as the Behemoth that existed in the days of Job (approximately the days of Abraham.) in which a beast with a tail like a cedar tree roamed, stood in deep rivers, and had skin thick like armor. Dinosaurs are clearly reflected in this image.

Chinese cultures also make incredible amounts of references to Great Dragon lizards. Dinosaurs come to mind.

Norse Mythology:
There is a Holy trinity in Norse Mythology, which functions as a lineage not a trinity head.
Au"umbla , Buri, Borr
Au"umbla was the essence of All potential, explained as a nourishing cow for the body of which potential can manifest,
Buri; the imaginable state of externalism. The frost giants being that which is unimaginably wicked and contestable.
Borr, was the founded Moral Basis for which this reality is guided and restricted by.

This is the Monotheist religion of Odin the HUMAN man, who preached respect for women, hate to perverts and criminals and thieves and tyrants, and earned, gained and honored the respect of his people as he devastated the regions which bolstered with savage rapists and raiders.

His children were all humans, that followed in Odin's wise teachings and because of it were prosperous, wise, united, and overly powerful as a people.

^ that is an accurate reflection of MOST mythologies.

Regarding Modern Culture and practice:
People often say that the Freemasons were/are a conspiracy topic. However, they were not.
In the Freemason halls and lodges are posters of the Garden of Eden over a Bible. The entire congregation Must follow the principals of a Christian moral premise - no putting tripping stones before children.

Masons were investors who Took Money from the royal coffers which was paid as taxes and used it to PAY the people to build community centers and social gathering areas. The freemasons funded the construction of factories, government buildings, libraries, theaters, parks, roads, mail offices, new paper factories, etc... and justly the money would eventually return to the Investors whom gave them the money through the profits of the things they built.

"Free Masonry"

In modern day, if you do not pay your taxes, the Government cannot pay for the services of the people to operate them, and so the government owned equity is sold into private ownership. Festivals/Fairs, medical, education, policing, transportation, infrastructure, utilities (water/electricity/natural gas), etc...
IN todays society, only the Military is truly Unprivitized where as everything else, Including education ha been sold to private investors who can control everything you are taught about creating, relationships, economy, and media.
Taxes prevent this from happening.

When people were drafted into the war, the religious people rushed off to save people, and the drunks criminals and perverts hid.
so their was increased crime rates, and the gangs thrived from then on out. They made money and raped people. They even acquired a majority vote, and they crashed the economy. Because the money was not going back to the government.
And so the people had no jobs, because it was well established that no one had done the work to make the cloths or grow the food.

Since then, the privatization of education ahs been preaching atheism to children, encouraging whoredom, prostitution, capitalist upbringings creating corrupt populations, and enabling eh criminal overlords to hire mercenaries: for sex, drugs and money.

^modern culture: where it's from and where it is going.

Philosophies of the World Cultures:
Jews, were never allowed to rape their slave girls. that is not said in the Bible or scriptures, and that is NOT implied. Atheists who hate religion like to suggest, think and claim that it is implied. But it is not.
A Jewish man who Takes a damsel, doesn't rape her, he shelters her, raises her and then, she may be found to be a fitting CHOIC OF BRIDE for himself if he is not married (because adultery is unacceptable){all examples of adultery in the bible are not glorifying it, they are historical references of the decline of the Jewish empire.} or his son. He can also sell her to another man.
*** you sell your daughters and slaves so that you are assured that the man is well off and is capable of feeding, housing clothing and looking after them, and that they are not in financial debt. This way the father is respected by the man because all that money should come back to him in time, like an investment fi he is a half decent son-in-law (who owes time, assistance and family to the Father).

A Jew who covets money was NOT Jewish even if he was an Israelite. The entire bible goes on and on about how most Israelites were atheists and pagans.

Sikhism is a monotheist religion, which if you have ever read reflects the Judaic law as well as any other scripture.
Although over time they seem to have misinterpreted some laws and become extremists in the way they implement it in their lives,
it is a religion of Respect for women, and feeding he poor, unity with the world, and detest of atheists.

Hinduism is a monotheist religion:
IN Hinduism there are no gods, only demigods and deities, which are not personalities or persons. They are metaphorical concepts for laws of physics, philosophy, sport, morals, etiquette, thought and nature. Lord Krishna is the only God in Hinduism and to him, the demigods and deities are like hairs and freckles on his skin. And Krishna, the All encompassing All knowing Great God, our Lord is all things physical, metaphorical, philosophical, ethereal, imaginary - past - future - present.
Krishna preaches
Respect fro women, feed the poor, Chastity, kill atheists for promoting the abandonment neglect and disrespect of women, glorification of the perspectives and lifestyles of criminals, perverts and corrupt politicians, and for suggesting morals are man made fictitious opinion statements ~which is a moral value all atheists live by.
Krishna teaches that a faithful man's prayers never cease - which is what Jesus said - and that you are praying in the acts of labour, play, relaxation, quarrel and study, If you love his values and do not worship demonology (which is covetousness, wickedness and adultery.). >this unceasing prayer is called YOGA
This was the faith of Abraham where he came from in the East.

These are all the same religion, and they all have the exact same principals, ethics and philosophies.
IN none of these religions is there any but one true God.

there is ONE God on all of earth,
the demons have been condemned since the beginnings of them all.

Because you asked me to write something of a thesis instead of a rebuttle of your debate contribution. I am a little at a loss for where to go from here, with eighty six more characters to write with...

"there is no ignorance for sin. only arrogance
Debate Round No. 2


Arcane Unit: 'These are all the same religion, and they all have the exact same principals, ethics and philosophies.
IN none of these religions is there any but one true God.'

Good work here Arcane Unit. All I want to do is give you kudos.

Just tell me where he is and why I am too stupid to see him.

All religions purport to be selling goodness and ethics, etc and they all fail dismally to deliver on their divinely inspired promises. Why is this. There is no visible difference between a billion people using Google and a billion people believing in this one God thing.

If you doubt what I say you would have to say that the religious of the US were more 'elevated' than the Chinese.

If you continue your course and declare that these people are not 'true believers' and assert that you alone speak truth then you by default place yourself in a long queue of 'one man religions' which is the lonliest place in the world.

Let us be blunt.

Tomorrow I want to experience this God of yours. If he is hiding from me then you just tell me where and how you found him and I will look there. Tell me what to do and I will be grateful. Be very precise. Thanks



Welcome; to the Circle of truth.

We have come here today to seek and embody enlightenment, and through it experience rejoicing, awes and wonders, new experiences and potential, and reach out towards an Eternal path of Divine Stimulation.

To begin, we will re-establish the principal of Faith shared by every follower of each of God's religions since the beginning of Time; that condemnation is justifiable through the arrogance of the sinner ~ for even if God himself miraculously was not real, it would still be arrogance, and not ignorance, to sin.
~ And we find refuge in this, for we do not question what compensation God will find for those whom have been victims or misfortunate do tot he actions of the wicked, for we do not compare their retribution to the eternal on-goings of the wretched.

So. Zeromeansnothing, take some time to complete this task before you carry on: Write down on a piece of Paper,
"I and every other mortal being that is, has been and will ever exist, IS in fact an immortal."
Now, you must determine that if such a statement is true, what things would cause you to grow old and die of old age.
Do this now.

Assuredly, not one thing on your list was something that a single person on the planet met as a requirement to actually attain immortality and cease their wasting-away.
Moses was in fact the only man to die at the age of 120 years old in the Bible. And after his death another man lived to be 132. A priest.
Joseph was the first man to die younger than 120 years old in the Biblical story. He was the first to live in a city in the records. His father, was the son of a man who grew old and Blind BECAUSE;
he grew blind because, he was spiritually blind. And he did not know where to look, or seek, or find understanding. And in his lack of wisdom he found darkness had surrounded him, and his son raised sons which had abandoned his grandson in a well! such a father was this blind old man.

True story anecdote:
I had a hawk in my goat shed which my father had picked up off the side of the road.
I was feeding it blueberries and cherries - stuffing them into his mouth. (I was afraid the first time he would-bite me {as I have been bitten regrettably by turtles before [encouraging fear in turtles hence forth.]}) He, the hawk, became accustomed to it shortly after, and so I did this for a few days.
I said to the hawk,
" You are a vegetarian. Your mother did not tell you because she did not know. There is no fruit for a hawk to eat in America. NO one has cultivated this land and planted fruit. If you sought fruit you would find none. You might not even recognize it. Surely there is not enough for you to survive eating the fruit that grows in this country. You eat meat because you could not find enough fruit to survive if you searched endlessly for it."
The hawk visually relaxed, and he took a liking to me.
He had asked me questions which were bewildering to me, and I gave him answers. I will always remember him. Harold... or Earnest. I can't remember..

Now, first-most, as we have surpassed basic things;
IF you suppose God is real, then you MUST
recognize that God is perfect in his judgments, his decisions, and is in effect innocent.
Also, that if he is real, he has demonstrated himself in some respects to humanity before.

If you do not acknowledge THAT ^ , then you still are not even attempting to understand the preliminary keys to actually Looking in the right direction at all (regarding recognizing true faith.). And so long as you argue or stipulate otherwise. You are 100% blind.

Through this Wisdom you begin your evaluation of all things; whether that be scripture, daily routine, discussion, innovation, humor, discursion etc... And you will begin to understand that by recognizing God as being innocent the TRUE causes of the pain on your back reveal themselves quickly. You will know immediately the way the human mind works, the way the world works, the way heaven works, and in effect

Complete enlightenment will consume you and only one thing will you not understand,

Why people are so stupid that they do not see it! : the true causes of conflict and pain, lies and suffering, disease and hard-ship.

The entirety of Heavenly, eternal and spiritual fulfillment will extend to you and you yourself should in effect become 100% qualified to make HONEST discursions regarding eh nature of spirituality, the kingdom of heaven and philosophical anomalies of discussion.
Through honesty and the rejection of Denying and Fighting and Rebuking God's wisdom which he extends to you,
you become empowered with rejoicing, and faith and enlightenment.

There are many people who are blind. Many who have lost hope (because of the ways and the sins of the faithless corrupting children who have never had a chance to grow up, mature and realize how their world works before becoming perverted.)

Jesus said, " Your prayer never ends, for the faithful man." Your every thought, action and desire,
are naturally founded on respect, trust and love of God's WAY, and you become heavenly to him. So that your very being is fulfilment of word.
This is YOGA by definition, according to the Hindu scriptures.
And this is Islam.
And this is the doctrine of all religion.

Jesus said that he did not change the spiritual philosophies of Israel one iota. And in fact, the first 5 chapters of the Quran preach repeatedly that Christianity is a TRUE religion of the book - and it goes on to say quite clearly,
" Make sure you can discern the difference between a faithful muslim and a " muslim" who is a pagan, is unfaithful, and is a liar. AND ALSO, be sure that you can discern between a TRUE Christian and a pagan, atheist, liar who calls himself a man of the Christian faith!"
This things are easy to see.
For you know! DO not be rash, no not be inconsiderate,
a woman cannot be tricked for how can a CHASTE woman be seduced by a liar!! a slutt!
A Christian does not ask you for your money for personal affairs and things for themselves. So no man can be tricked. If they but use common sense.
If a man says I am a Christian, and you give him a chance, he did not fool you, you did not know him at all ~ quickly his lies are revealed.

The Scriptures do not say once, not once, nor do they insinuate it, or suggest that, YOU should or must go to church.
That is not a portion of ANY RELIGION ever.
Those are the actions, words and beliefs of people entirely apart from their religions of association.

I also suggest that you do not judge the Catholic church. I can slam you on any discord with the Catholic church. I am an Islamic, Christian, Mythologist, Hindu, Sikh, Creationist - not a catholic - but I do not consider insolence to be a productive debate method, and I do not find it humorous to hear ignorant people arrogantly talking about he catholic church in any way.

All I can say, with humility at This point, as I have chosen a course as ^such^, is that
God is Eternal, and all of the quantum universes are; to him without a pause, accusatively, concluded in Every form of manifestation and his judgements are unchanging, unyielding, unsympathetic to contradiction, all wise, all considerate regarding the happiness of every being within even the theoretical instances ~ so that if one should not arrogantly sin, he has accounted for a greater reward.

And in this God,
you will surely find your faith.

he loves to love you,
he is humble,
he is proud,
he will always accept your service,
and he never takes pleasure or pride in you insolence.

in him, seek and you shall find,
what a sin truly is.

I hope that was similar to what you were looking for>>?

I usually stay on topic when I am in discussion, so I am eager to relieve myself and remark that
we still have two more rounds.

I have a lot of fun facts to share, spiritual experiences, and like I listed before: history science, philosophy, culture,
I'mm all about that stuff.


Debate Round No. 3


Arcane Unit states: 'To begin, we will re-establish the principal of Faith shared by every follower of each of God's religions since the beginning of Time; that condemnation is justifiable through the arrogance of the sinner ~ for even if God himself miraculously was not real, it would still be arrogance, and not ignorance, to sin.'

I think that you request of me to look for God within my 'moral self'. Is this correct? I commend you for your sincerity and help here. I asked for directions and I honestly feel that you have given some to me.

Your expressed clarity in the above statement has explained many things to me regarding the indifference shown by many religous people to the plight of the sinner as they face damnation and torment. You clearly state that evil doing is a conscious act and that it is essentially wilful and that it is normal that it will receive censure. Am I correct in this?

When I look into my moral self I see the mercy and love of Jesus, the human being towards the sinful woman at the well, I see the bravery and love shown by the staff of Médecins Sans Frontières ,who mop up the misery left by mankind's constant ignorance. What I see is humanity, I do not see God. Nevertheless, I feel that I have made progress because I am examining a very specific place. This definately is what was demanded from you because of your acceptance of this debate challenge.

Let me look again:

I feel a tremendous pain in that I can almost taste the potential that lies within human love for a species epiphany. Jesus believed that this energy might prompt us to transform the world back towards its created glory where our wonder might once again re-establish itself .God is within life on Earth if God is anywhere. Our sinful nature is that part of us that is winning. It is greed, ambition, fear, cruelty and indifference. A higher love can only be an objective morality that is present within life and of which mans 'love' is a component. It cannot be personably human except when considered in terms of our responses to it. Do you accept this point? Our inability to respect our fellow life forms is a litmus indicator of our self imposed isolation from this objective energy. Am I talking about your God or do I need to take a step backward. If you can answer my enquiries, then you are well down the road of victory in this debate. I would nearly concede already. Thanks


GoOrDin forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4


I was disappointed to read that you had missed your deadline. Please, do not miss the next one. I was very interested in our discussion/debate. I am aware that it requires alot of time to make submissions of the quality that I associate with yours. Good Luck


IN my opponents last post he acknowledged that
sinful acts are conscious decisions ~ As are all acts.

This indicates Credit is merited for finding God.
If God was to reveal himself to you, and you do not willingly and consciously act, you will not see or acknowledge him,
regardless of how well you know he is there.
I once had a dream, that I looked up from a table where I sat with God, and a waitress with a beautiful body leaned over the table to make a brief comment, and I looked away from her and God in shame, and I no longer saw him.

My opponent failed to suggest in which way no credit was merited. Most assertions were directed at his own lack of principal beliefs. He did not direct those personal errors in consideration as debate arguments or substance of merit.

Gods people searched for him and found him.
You only find God when he reveals himself to you if your looking.

Every murderer, thief, gangster, drug addict, perverts, criminal, arrogant individual, pompous and ignorant fool, negligent coward etc... knows of their lack of effort and good deeds and the excess account for syphoning off the system parasitically.

One is arrogant not ignorant for all their own sins. NO one is credited ignorance for their sins.

We are in a world that is: as it is ~ capable of hosting all that is possible. We as religious people do not see the world any different than it is perceived and proven to be. God is clear as can be.

one only needs stop insisting that God is wrong to justify the current world affairs; And than by removing God conclude that the world affairs are inconsequential. Thus indicating the affairs were only so unpleasing as they were forbidden.

ONe deserves credit for suggesting that ^That theorem is immature and irrational.
Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by GoOrDin 1 year ago

I disagree.
Posted by zeromeansnothing 1 year ago
Hi GoOrDin,

victory in this debate is not a significant concern to me. You sounded either rushed or uncertain in your last response. You really did not consider my last post , all the early promises dissipated and you descended into a generic theistic scramble. IMHO. I had hoped for something new. It was if you consigned yourself to the typical theistic response to atheistic inquiry. ie

'I'm doing it and it makes sense to me and if you can't see it then that's your problem'

I will leave you to consider the following, GoOrDin, ( I believe that you have substance within you but your evangelical zeal is a real threat to any non conformist that comes within your sphere of control. You could lead people to do bad things and you would not be the first or the last religious person to do this)
Posted by GoOrDin 1 year ago
I didn't mean to sound so offensive on the last post.
Posted by zeromeansnothing 1 year ago
Thank You GoOrDin, for your lengthy and very thought provoking read. Allow me to consider your work here for a few days and take your rest on this while others read. Well Done!
Posted by GoOrDin 1 year ago
the word "accusatively" was intended to be, " Accumulatively"
Posted by GoOrDin 1 year ago
Zeromeansnothing. I will respond later today. I thought it was a work day, so I intended to go to town. but seeing as it is a holiday. U'll be assured to have ur response.
Posted by GoOrDin 1 year ago
Sidah, Tell me ONE "discrepancy" between any religion.
YOu seem LosssT
Posted by sidah 1 year ago
Pretty selective passages by Con however if Con had done proper due diligence it would be obvious there are too many discrepancies between religions to exist under the same God. Only one religion is true or they are all false. I can tell you Pro, 'finding God' is exactly that. It's like meeting a person - you know that you have met them. God can be found by anyone who really wants to find Him in their hearts. People make the mistake of applying intellect soley to this journey but you are a spirit and God is Spirit. Try to get your head out of the way for a minute and be open to this fact. The Bible states God has placed eternity in the hearts of mankind. There is enough awareness in each of us to believe there is a God. Jesus is the bridge between you and God. Jesus said 'No one comes to the Father except by me'. This is why Con's argument is flawed by excluding comments from the Bible such as these.
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