The Instigator
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Hematite12
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

You deserve to burn in hell; the same as me.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Hematite12
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/28/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,552 times Debate No: 49939
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (31)
Votes (1)

 

LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

Death is separation from God caused by sin. Sin is the breaking of God's law, (the Ten Commandments, if you have ever lied, stolen, even in the tiniest way, you have broken God's law.........sin is an English word, easily defined..........if the law is just, breaking the law is sin.....even if you reject God, you are still a lawbreaker and deserve to be punished by the law......the law is good for nothing if breaking the law does not bring punishment. God does not want His creatures to be imprisoned forever, but He cannot allow rebellion against Him by His creatures to go unpunished..........lest the rebellion spead to all of His creatures and then all would have to be negated (un-created) or confined where God will have no pleasure in the beings He created to enjoy. Why would God want to forever go through the heartache of wathing His creatures causing more and more problems for themselves and those around them by the things they do wrong? There must be an end, a total and unchangable eternal separation between God and those who rebelled against Him or everything God created would be a continuing battle between those who say He is wrong to enforce His law, and His law is bad (restricive, selfish, didctatorial) and those who say His law is good and He is good (protecive, loving, king, righteous, just, perfect, worthy of all praise and all worship from His creatures.) God did not have to create us, He does not have to tolerate our selfish ways forever. We all deserve to burn in hell, separted from God forever because of our sin.. Okay, many points in here for rebels to argue agaisnt. I do expect to lose this debate due to the fact that the vast majority of people will never admit that they deserve to burn in hell forever the same as me.......at least untill they find themselves in the fire with no argument good enough to pull them back from death to life.
Hematite12

Con

I assume in this debate we are assuming basic Christian theology and the general truth of the Bible? Given, I think, by how you made your argument.

Death is separation from God caused... the law does not bring punishment.

Right, we are all lawbreakers at some point. You are correct when you say lawbreakers "deserve" to be punished. What kind of punishment though? You seem to think that eternal and infinite suffering is a just penalty for "the tiniest" lie. I would be horrified if that was the logic humans used. Should we torture to death anyone who breaks the speed limit? There are things such as just and unjust punishments, and it is ludicrous to think that infinite suffering is a just penalty for a finite, minor transgression.

God does not want... He created to enjoy.

You're honestly telling me that an omniscient and omnipotent entity has to fear "rebellion"?

Why would God want to forever go... separted from God forever because of our sin..


Well, if God was so adverse to "heartache", I don't know why he would create creatures that had such a capacity for sin.

Non sequitur. Why must there be an eternal separation between God and his creatures given his not wanting "heartache"? He could just separate the ones who say his law is good and ones who say his law is bad. You know, like the Bible says. Heaven vs hell and all.

Right, God didn't have to create us. He did create us, though. I would think that he wouldn't send to eternal suffering and cause himself "heartache" humans if he bothered to create us in the first place. That probably isn't his intention.

Okay, many points in here for rebels to argue... enough to pull them back from death to life.

Or maybe you could lose because your arguments aren't as good?
Debate Round No. 1
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

First, a kind thank you to Mr. Hematite for accepting this challenge and allowing further explanation of why he deserves to burn in hell forever; the same as I. He deserves some applause for taking up the challenge which had to be posted a second time before anybody would accept it. It is not easy for a person to admit he deserves to burn in hell. It was not easy for me to reach this conclusion regarding myself. My theory is that most people are afraid to admit they deserve to burn in hell because they know that if it is true, they need to seek mercy from God and renounce themselves for breaking God's law. This would also require turning away from the pleasures that are found in rebellion. In these opening comments, Mr. Hematite may find more points he would like to argue against. I do appreciate his systematic and specific approach of bringing argument. I will first post his abbreviated quotes from me, and then repeat the actual quote. I will run out of available characters in this round, so I will answer Mr. Hematite's objections in the order they were posted.

Death is separation from God caused... the law does not bring punishment (Hematite)
......the law is good for nothing if breaking the law does not bring punishment. (actual quote)

The punishment for the tiniest infraction against God is death. The infraction itself is an offense to God, and the offender by his infraction has caused a separation between himself and God. This separation is death. The first death is in our bodies. Burning in hell would be the second death and God does not want anybody to suffer there, but He did not want them to be offenders. We do not execute the death penalty for minor infractions. God executes the death penalty. Mr. Hematite is held under the death penalty, on death row even though that row is as broader than the face of the planet. The tiniest infraction is punished by God. Hematite deserves the second death the same as me.
Hematite12

Con

Well first off, you didn't answer most of my contentions. This is fine if it was a lack of characters, just making sure everyone knows I said lots of stuff that still needs to be responded to. Because of this, my response will be short as well, since there is not much to respond to.

"The punishment for the tiniest infraction against God is death. The infraction itself is an offense to God, and the offender by his infraction has caused a separation between himself and God. This separation is death."

Why? You're just making the bare assertion that the punishment for any "separation" at all is death, but this is what we are debating.

"The first death is in our bodies. Burning in hell would be the second death and God does not want anybody to suffer there, but He did not want them to be offenders."

There's no reason why burning in hell is a necessary result of a minor transgression.

"We do not execute the death penalty forminor infractions. God executes the death penalty. Mr. Hematite is held under the death penalty, on death row even though that row is as broader than the face of the planet."

Same as above.

"The tiniest infraction is punished by God. Hematite deserves the second death the same as me."

Right, of course the tiniest transgression is punished. Now explain how exactly you decided that this punishment is necessarily always burning in hell for eternity?
Debate Round No. 2
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

You and I have both sinned against our Creator. We are violators of His law. In His eyes, we both deserve to be cast away into fire of hell forever since we have rebelled against the One who created us. We both deserve to die, and we both deserve to burn in hell. Your punishment is not up to you or me. God decides. If our punishment was up to us, we would take time out or a fine and not have to suffer through the death penalty. Can you blame God if He made you to be like Himself in perfect harmony with Him and by your own choice you are more like a devil, arguing against your Creator's right to cast you away like garbage to be burned in fire of hell? He could annihilate you and make it as if you had never existed, but that would imply that what He created was a mistake. The mistake is ours, not His. We have done the wrongs against Him, He has not done wrong against us. He has the right to cast us away from Himself forever into the fire of hell, and we deserve it.
Mr Hematite asked: "You're honestly telling me that an omniscient and omnipotent entity has to fear "rebellion"?
No sir, I did not say this at all. Perhaps you honestly misuderstood what I said, but I never said God has to fear rebellion.
If He feared rebellion, He would not have given you freedom of choice. He could have made you as only an animal which could live only by instinct, but He made you to be like Himself for His own pleasure, for His own enjoyment. He deserves honor from us who He created. We dishonor Him by our rebellion, and we deserve to burn in hell. He loves you so much, He took on a body Himself and died in your place. Only His own death is enough to satisfy your debt to Him for dishonoring Him. He had no sin of His own to die for, He died for your sins and rose from the grave to justify all who receive Him by faith as their Saviour, and He will be the Judge of all who disregard the price He paid to save them from the fire of Hell.
Hematite12

Con

There really isn't much for me to say at this point. You are making literally dozens and dozens of baseless assertions and specific interpetations of God and biblical texts. Until you provide real evidence or use actual logic, there is nothing for me to debate. This is a debate website, not a televangelist program.
Debate Round No. 3
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

God loves me and Mr Hematite so much that He took on a body to pay for our sins with His own blood. He had no sin of His own, He took our death. He paid the price that we deserve to pay because we have sinned against Him. Death could not hold Him because He had no sin of His own. He was never under God's death penalty as we are. He is God who took death willingly in our place. He Created us, we rebelled against Him, He paid for our death so that if we receive Him by faith as the payment for our sins, we do not have to pay, we are forgiven. If we reject Him as the full satisfactory payment from God (a gift from God, He gave His only begotten Son to pay for our sins......yes, Son......if a human has a child, the child is a human, Jesus came down taking on a body through a woman to be born as the Son of God. God's Son is God the same as a human's son is a human), then the only way we can pay for our sin is by death, and we can never die enough to make things right. You cannot go back and change the things you did wrong or failed to do which were right. If we reject God's payment for our sins, then we deserve whatever punishment he sees fitting, even eternal fire of hell. We all deserve to burn in hell.
God loves us so much He paid for our sins so if we believe on Him and receive Him as our Saviour, we will be saved through faith in His blood which paid for our sins. And as death could not hold him, it will not hold us who have believed on His resurrection and said "I know I'm a sinner and God's punishment is deserved for my sins, I'm asking God to save me in the name of Jesus Christ, and I have received Him as my Saviour." This is the sinner's prayer for salvation, believing God's promise to pardon us from what we deseve if we only believe.......we all deserve to burn in hell.

I cannot prove that God loves you so much He took your death and rose from the grave to justify all whe believe on Him and receive him by faith. You have to believe it......or reject it.
Hematite12

Con

You're still doing the same thing I told you not to do.

I think your comment here suffices for your general attitude:

You have to believe it......or reject it.

This is a debate website. That is, you provide arguments. You don't just say "Take it or leave it, but I know I'm right". That may be fit for a televangelist program or Fox News, but not here. Obviously I have to believe it or reject it, you telling me to believe it does absolutely nothing for your case. I am quite solid in my views, thank you.
Debate Round No. 4
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

There's no more argument to present. If Mr Hematite refuses to admit he deserves to burn in hell the same as me, that is his choice. I did answer all of his objections and denials logically in the debate. How can I say "you deserve to burn in hell, the same as me" without preaching? It's a preaching statement at the start, and it's preaching still. God loved us so much He paid for our sins with His own blood and if we trample His blood under our feet saying it was nothing that the Creator died in our place to be our Saviour, then be sure He will be the Judge who sends us away into whatever punishment He sees fit for us and we deserve it.
Hematite12

Con

There's no more argument to present. If Mr Hematite refuses to admit he deserves to burn in hell the same as me, that is his choice.

But presenting me with the choice of either side is not debating, it's a question. You need to provide arguments that go beyond various restatements of your HEAVILY religious denominationally biased view.

I did answer all of his objections and denials logically in the debate.

No, you didn't even remotely respond to all of them, and the ones that you did respond to, you just reasserted your core religious views and made baseless and biased assertions. Almost my entire Round 1 argument was left unanswered, especially my core rebuttals to your initial assertions, such as the fact that infinite suffering cannot be "deserved" by someone who makes a small transgression (punishment fits the crime, this is a basic human justice concept), and the fact that he can just separate the ones who actually DO deny his law and the ones who don't deny his law but just slip up now and then. Hell AND heaven.

How can I say "you deserve to burn in hell, the same as me" without preaching? It's a preaching statement at the start, and it's preaching still.

Your sentence right after this is what I mean when I say you are just preaching. It is rather ironic you preach right after saying this.

God loved us so much He paid for our sins with His own blood and if we trample His blood under our feet saying it was nothing that the Creator died in our place to be our Saviour, then be sure He will be the Judge who sends us away into whatever punishment He sees fit for us and we deserve it.

"be sure He will be the Judge who sends us away into whatever punishment He sees fit for us and we deserve it." No justification whatsoever, this is your baseless preaching that has corrupted the entire debate. If you can't see that, there is nothing for me to say, you just totally misunderstand the purpose of all debate and argumentation.
Debate Round No. 5
31 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Fools make a mockery of things they do not understand. Nothing holds you back from the fire of hell now except for God's mercy. It is by His mercy that you are not consumed. How long do you think He will tolerate you mocking Him? How long do you think it will be before He withholds His air from your lungs? And do you think He will not reject you in death the same as you reject Him while He is being patient with you? Laughter of a fool is like fire in a pile of thorns; burns hot and fast and then it's gone.....your mockery burns against the One who created you and cries out for your own burning consumption in self-indulgent self-flattery in spite of the mercy of the One who died in your place while you trampled His blood under your feet and would give you His eternal resurrected life except for your insistance that you are your own. So He will let you fall as you choose, in your own conceits, thtrough the rotten crust of your own pride, into the fire of Hell where all of His creatures who stand proud in defiance of Him will be disposed. Remain proud and let your words fly in ignorance with all the pleasure you can find if you think the fire of hell is worth it. You will know that you were warned, and you will know God stretched out His hand to save you and you denied His power to save the same as you deny His power to destroy. You will go on somewhere, as you stand now in fire of hell or in heaven through God's own blood shed for your sins in Jesus Christ who will be your Judge, rejecting you, if not your Saviour. Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Reject Him in life and He who Created you will reject you in death. You are already condemned. Maybe it's too late for you now. Maybe your heart is hardened beyond the point where you can hear Him calling you to be saved. Maybe you missed your last chance to be saved. Who knows? God knows.
Posted by Hematite12 3 years ago
Hematite12
You are showing willful ignorance and blindness in your denial of the One true God the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Be saved and turn your blind eyes to the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster, lest you be burned in the eternal lake of pasta sauce.

Enjoy yourself while you can if you think it's worth it until you find out you were wrong. Everyone knows in their heart that the Great God of Pasta is the one true Lord and Savior.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Your arguments against being saved from the fire of hell will not be heard much longer. Enjoy yourself while you can if you think it's worth it untill you find out you were wrong.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Apparently this is not helping you...........many have been helped by the gospel, many have been saved from the fire of hell. You speak only for yourself in your unbelief and willfull ignorance. You need to get saved. You are asking for proof that the fire of hell is real and you are going to get it if you keep on saying you don't need to be saved from it. And if that happens, you will remember I tried to warn you.
And I will be in heaven through the blood and life of the Everliving One who rose from the grave after He paid for my sins. Why do you insisit on paying for your own sins when God is offering you a pardon to be saved from the fire of hell?
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
You are the onw who is responding illegitamately. You are the law breaker, the same as me. You are saying you don't have to answer for it to anybody other than yourself. You are wrong. You are in danger of God's Judgement and He is Righteous when He orders people to be cast into the fire of hell. God is good all the time. You are the one making baseless assertions,,,,,,,,,,assertions that have no base other than your wish to justify yourself in your own eyes and you are only fooling yourself. You are not listening. You are rejcting reason and logic. You are being illogical and irrational and foolish. You are in danger of the fire of hell which we both deserve now.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
The law of God is written on your heart. You corrupt God's law when you refer to it as "your morality", bending it and making it fit to whatever you think is appropriate for whatever your situation is. You corrupt morality to suit your own wants and wishes. You have broken God's law and you are trying to excuse yourself. You are not excused by anything you think or do..... You are guilty the same as me. You deserve to burn in hell the same as me.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Your morality will not prevail over God so that He cannot dispose of you in the fire of hell with the devil and his angels
Posted by Hematite12 3 years ago
Hematite12
You are bad at carrying on arguments, aren't you?

I'm guessing you feel yourself unable to legitimately respond to my contentions, and so instead you resort to the pseudo-argument that I "know the truth in my soul", or something like that.

Claims like that don't help anyone.

And if you insist on holding your pride the way you are, your pride is going to take you down into that same lake of burning spaghetti. And then you will have your proof. I already know. You are being willfully ignorant, but that won't keep you out of the firey pasta lake. Have it your way if you insist. You die for your sins, you deserve it, the Flying Spaghetti Monster loves you so much He died in your place. If you trample His blood under your feet until your death is finalized, the One who would have been your Saviour to Justify you by purchasing your pardon with His spaghetti sauce will be The Judge who orders you cast away forever where your sin belongs, burning in fire of pasta noodles with all of it's pride and passion against the Flying Spaghetti Monster. All who end up there become fuel for the pasta, and it grows bigger and bigger the more it is filled with burning sinners. It's common sense logic, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is calling you to get saved before the proof you insist is not there is forced upon you and it's too late for you to say sorry for rejecting your Saviour because you will be rejected forever due to not caring about what He did on your behalf trying to save you from the second death, the Lake of Firey Spaghetti Sauce. Who are you trying to fool? You won't fool the Flying Spaghetti Monster and you won't be able to tell Him He did not prove Himself to you so you had no reason to believe. the Flying Spaghetti Monster won't buy that garbage. You have bought it and you are sold into it. You are a proud, brave, fool, fooling only yourself. You need to wake up before it's too late.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
you are already doomed to hell if you do not get saved. You are floating around in the first death, treading water, and you can't tread water forever. Pascal can't help you. Jesus can and will save you if you accept that you deserve to die for your sins, believe on Him who created you then died for your sins and rose from the grave. He died in your place. If you don't care, why should He care to keep you out of the fire of hell? Wagering is sin. You are wagering on yourself. You are making a losing bet. When you can no longer tread water in the first death, if you are not saved, you will enter the second death where there is no water to tread and worms never die..........and we both deserve it because we have sinned against our Creator.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 3 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Pascal did not die for your sins, Pascal died for his own sins and if he was not saved before he died, he is in the fire of hell now. And if you insist on holding your pride the way you are, your pride is going to take you down into that same fire. And then you will have your proof. I alread know. You are being willfully ignorant, but that won't keep you out of the fire. Have it your way if you insist. You die for your sins, you deserve it, God loves you so much He died in your place. If you trample His blood under your feet untill your death is finalize, the One who would have been your Saviour to Justify you by purchasing your pardon with His blood will be The Judge who orders you cast away forever where your sin belongs, burning in fire of hell with all of it's pride and passion against God. All who end up there become fuel for the fire, and it grows bigger and bigger the more it is filled with burning sinners. It's common sense logic, God is calling you to get saved before the proof you insist is not there is forced upon you and it's too late for you to say sorry for rejecing your Saviour because you will be rejected forever due to not caring about what He did on your behalf trying to save you from the second death, the Lake of Fire. Who are you trying to fool? You won't fool God and you won't be able to tell Him He did not prove Himself to you so you had no reason to believe. God won't buy that garbage. You have bought it and you are sold into it. You are a proud, brave, fool, fooling only yourself. You need to wake up before it's too late.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by zmikecuber 3 years ago
zmikecuber
LifeMeansGodIsGoodHematite12Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con refuted all of Pro's arguments, and Pro dropped alot of stuff.