The Instigator
megan91509
Pro (for)
Losing
30 Points
The Contender
dalzuga
Con (against)
Winning
43 Points

You simply can not justify being against capital punishment and being pro-choice.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/22/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,366 times Debate No: 839
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (46)
Votes (25)

 

megan91509

Pro

Some people claim to be totally pro-choice, but completely against the death penalty. That is two extremely hypocritical conflicting views. That makes no sense whatsoever.

The opposing argument will probably be something along the lines of, "It is a person's choice to do what they want to their body." I am fully prepared to refute whatever my opponent has to say about this issue.

In my personal opinion killing innocent babies, who have clearly done nothing wrong, is murder. Yes, it is the mother's body and she should have a choice, but the baby is a human too. The baby should have a right to life just as the mother does. On the other hand, a bloodthirsty murderous criminal will be humanely put to death by lethal injection, and the same pro-choice activists cry out about how wrong that is. Logically, these to opinions naturally contradict with each other, and I would be delighted if someone could prove to me that they do in fact coincide with each other.
dalzuga

Con

Hi megan. Thanks for coming up with the topic. I am currently on vacation so I was unable to post a response sooner.

Things don't always look the way they are. For example, in math, someone could think that there are more integers than there are even integers. But there are actually as many integers as there are even integers. In topology, using our innate understanding of what volume is, you would think that if you could perform a FINITE number of cuts to an orange, you wouldn't be able to reassemble the pieces to obtain two oranges. However, this is not true: you CAN get two oranges with a FINITE number of cuts. In fact, you can get as many oranges as you want! My point is that your first impression of something may deceive the mind, but when we analyze it carefully, we realize that it does make sense after all.

Being pro-choice & against capital punishment

Although the reasons for believing that the two views are hypocritical may appear obvious to you, you do not explicitly state what are your reasons for your claim. I could speculate and try to guess as to why you may believe that the two views are hypocritical, but there are many reasons I can think of for anyone to believe so. But if you claim that the two views do not make sense, you are the one that must provide arguments to back it up. Having said that, for the purposes of clarification, I would like you to elaborate on what exactly is hypocritical about those two views, and what makes no sense. Please explain your line of reasoning with as much detail as possible, since there is only one more round to this debate.

The reason I mentioned integers and oranges is to try to illustrate why it is important to be careful by being explicit in presenting your reasons for believing something. If you just rely on instinct, you can never be sure that your initial impression makes sense.
Debate Round No. 1
megan91509

Pro

megan91509 forfeited this round.
dalzuga

Con

Well, I really have nothing much to say.

I would like to clarify something though. It suffices for me to refute whatever megan said by pointing out that she did not provide any reasons for her stance. That alone is enough for me to convince someone of my position. I do not have to go around spending time -- that could be used for something more constructive -- in trying to anticipate what questions megan may bring up and then answering them. She's the one that's supposed to bring them up (as opposed to me).

Megan, I am so sorry you were unable to respond to that round, since it was pretty critical for your side. If you want to debate me at any other time, please respond in the comments section. I think it should also be a better idea if we have more rounds, since this issue needs a lot of consideration, besides being very interesting.
Debate Round No. 2
46 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by arrivaltime 9 years ago
arrivaltime
People vote with opinions and not on the debate. I can't wait for them to add the new "opinion"! poll.

They need forums, too.
Posted by dalzuga 9 years ago
dalzuga
lol arrivaltime. please spam away. and btw, did u notice that megan has 11 votes right now? incredible isn't it? how the hell...?
Posted by arrivaltime 9 years ago
arrivaltime
I'm happy to support my reasoning and evidence that the death penalty doesn't deter crime but I don't want dalzuga and mangani having a wisdom/pissing contest over how amazingly great debaters they are and we are both giant tools who spam up their comment board.
Posted by Novan_Leon 9 years ago
Novan_Leon
You didn't answer the question, but I'll assume your answer is yes.

In a real debate you would, of course, be required to support your reasoning.
Posted by arrivaltime 9 years ago
arrivaltime
I've studied the death penalty for a long time and I know it doesn't, so...
Posted by Novan_Leon 9 years ago
Novan_Leon
There are so many ways to approach this question, but I'd like to ask a question instead.

If it can be shown than through deterence the death penalty can save many innocent lives, would you change your mind?
Posted by arrivaltime 9 years ago
arrivaltime
No, it basically comes down to if you think the innocent men being murdered is okay if it means we keep the death penalty.

I don't.
Posted by Novan_Leon 9 years ago
Novan_Leon
So the logical argument is:

The death penalty is not infallible because innocent people have died because of it.

The logical arguments need to be clarified in the first post and addressed thoroughly throughout the debate. Coincidentally, this argument says nothing about whether you think it's a good idea or not, it merely states that it isn't perfect. Follow-ups to this could be:

The justice system isn't perfect, is perfection a reasonable expectation?

Why is punishing an innocent in another manner acceptable while punishing an innocent by the death penalty is not?

On what basis are your decisions on what is acceptable and what is not made?
Posted by arrivaltime 9 years ago
arrivaltime
Infallible in that innocent people have died or almost died.
Posted by Novan_Leon 9 years ago
Novan_Leon
Correct. The reason it's not logically sound is because it's too vague, for starters.

Infallible in what way? That it doesn't deter crime? That it puts to death innocent lives on accident. That it's morally wrong?
25 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by U.n 1 year ago
U.n
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture.
Vote Placed by Hoyt13 9 years ago
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