The Instigator
yuiru
Con (against)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
TheOrator
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points

Yuiru will win this debate

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
TheOrator
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/9/2012 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,309 times Debate No: 24187
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (7)

 

yuiru

Con


I believe the user "yuiru" will inevitably lose in this debate.

This user has lost multiple debates in the past, is unable to make serious arguments, intentionally uses fallacious arguments, and generally likes losing!

In fact, I do not think its even possible for yuiru to win this debate by default.

Evidence:

Lost other debates

Makes bad arguments

Is a non-human

Yuiru is going to lose!

TheOrator

Pro

I accept this challenge, and I will start with my opening argument since I'm the pro.

Contention 1: Voting
This simply discusses what I need to do to win. In order to, I simply need to get my opponent to win. Obviously, this is done by my losing. Therefore, if at any point in the debate I lose, I therefor win, and am proven correct.
Contention 2: I concede.
I forfeit the debate, meaning I lose automatically. As I have now lost, Yuiru has won, and the resolution is proven correct. As the resolution is correct, please vote pro :)
Debate Round No. 1
yuiru

Con

"Contention 1: Voting"

Yes, but you are still wining and therefore yuiru is losing!

"Contention 2: I concede."

Maybe, but Yuiru has already lost the debate!!!

"As I have now lost, Yuiru has won, and the resolution is proven correct."

If Yuiru wins then Yuiru ultimately loses!!!! This would prove the resolution incorrect!

It is impossible for Yuiru to win the resolution!

Vote pro!!!

Why you should vote pro:

Yuiru has used huge fallacious arguments!!

Performative Contradiction - Yuiru is using a self-refuting idea/paradox:
Example: "This statement is false" if it is false it is true, if its true it is false.
Yuiru's version: Yuiru debates Yuiru will lose the debate. If yuiru wins yuiru loses, if yuiru loses yuiru wins.

Ignoratio elenchi - Yuiru brings up an irrelevant issue: yuiru losing another debate in the past.

Special pleading -
Yuiru assumes if they were to lose the same ad infinitum argument can not be applied.

Argumentum ad infinitum and chain reaction argument -
Yuiru is arguing that he is correct because of a non-terminating process that Yuiru can not win because of.

Bidirectional causation -
Yuiru argues that because wining is associated with wining, that therefore wining causes losing.

Circular reasoning/paradoxical thinking -
Yuiru's argument if examined basically goes like this:
Yuiru will inevitably lose
Therefore Yuiru will lose.

False dichotomy - Yuiru asserts the only possible outcome is a win or a lose, yet ignores the possiblity of a tie!

Ad hominem argument (in multiple forms) - Yuiru claims because Yuiru is not a human, lost other debates, likes losing, and intentionally uses fallacious arguments that they will lose.

Fallacy fallacy - Yuiru assumes that because Yuiru's arguments are fallacious, Yuiru therefore should lose.

Since pro has conceded then pro has won:

Based on TheOrator's first contention, by his second contention, the only possible outcome is Yuiru losing.

Yuiru concedes pros stance:

I concede both now, in the above, and even before pro did.



I rest on my case.







TheOrator

Pro

C1 Rebuttal:
"Yes, but you are still wining and therefore yuiru is losing!"
Actually, as I've forfeited, there's no way in which you could lose. Even if you forfeited now it couldn't work as you don't have an opponent to forfeit to. As the loser has already been decided, you must be made the winner, and so the resolution has been upheld.

C2 Rebuttal:
"Maybe, but Yuiru has already lost the debate!!!"
Check the C1 rebuttal.

Opponent's Case:
As I conceded the argument before you posted any arguments, those arguments cannot be accepted as they were made after the round was already over. Since there is no way the argument can now progress in any other direction than Yuiru's eventual win, vote pro!.

Question to Opponent:
How do you pronounce Yuiru?


Debate Round No. 2
yuiru

Con

Question answer:

Yu's "u" as in You
I's "Ee" as in Pee
And Ru's "u" as in Eww
All in a breathy voice.

Yue-Ee-Rue ユイル

or you can call me Johnny, Johnny Depp.

Join the yuiru crew!

"Actually, as I've forfeited, there's no way in which you could lose. Even if you forfeited now it couldn't work as you don't have an opponent to forfeit to. As the loser has already been decided, you must be made the winner, and so the resolution has been upheld."

But you forget on thing:

This entire debate is insolubilia!

Say for a second I was pro!

If I win, therefore the resolution is proven true, and I win... If I lose, the resolution is proven false.. and I lose.

But since I am con ,I am debating I will lose.

If I win, the resolution is proven true, meaning I lose... If I lose, there resolution is proven false, meaning I win.

It is a paradox ad infinitum.

"C2 Rebuttal:
"Maybe, but Yuiru has already lost the debate!!!"

Check the C1 rebuttal."

I said that because this debate is a double binding paradox!

"As I conceded the argument before you posted any arguments, those arguments cannot be accepted as they were made after the round was already over. Since there is no way the argument can now progress in any other direction than Yuiru's eventual win, vote pro!."

But I can not win, it is a vicious circularity of infinite regress.
In fact, I can't even lose.

And now that you have said there is no one to lose, because you have forfeited.

This means no competition and therefor no ability to lose or win.

Its a no win or lose situation because of how contradictory it is.

There is a simple solution to this paradox that Pro has failed to state, therefore it remains I can not win, and will lose this debate, thus wining, and so on ad infinitum.

Vote Pro, Con, or Tie!

Either way I DO NOT WIN!!

Let con have their way!


TheOrator

Pro

Although none of the Con's arguments can be accepted as I've already forfeited and he's already won, I'll clear a few things up.

On the Paradoxical Argument:
My opponent claims that this is a paradox as there is no way for him to win. However, the only for this to turn into a paradox would be if an actual argument occured over the resolution. If that were the case, then there would in fact be a paradox. However, there was no actual debate over the round. I, TheOrator, have forfeited the round. By the rules of every formal debating format that I've heard of, this means that my opponent, in this case Yuiru, will have to win. There's no way around that. As my opponent has won, the resolution is upheld, and according to the rules of this site, if the resolution is proven to be upheld (in this case by my forfeit) then the Pro has won the debate.

On the Forfeit:
My opponent states "And now that you have said there is no one to lose, because you have forfeited. This means no competition and therefor no ability to lose or win.". Although the grammar was pretty bad in that, I think it means that because I said I forfeited no one can lose or win and so the con succeeds. However, a concession means exactly the opposite. As I have conceded, I have automatically been declared the loser, and so Yuiru is declared the winner. As Yuiru has won, the Pro receives the vote.

Because I lost, vote Pro :)

Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by yuiru 4 years ago
yuiru
I won!!!!
Posted by yuiru 4 years ago
yuiru
"A bogus resolution is a conduct violation by the Instigator."
It is a genuine resolution with a solution.
Posted by TheOrator 4 years ago
TheOrator
Oh, well in that case substitute forfeit with concede
Posted by RoyLatham 4 years ago
RoyLatham
A forfeit is a failure to respond in the time limit. There was no forfeit. A bogus resolution is a conduct violation by the Instigator.
Posted by TheOrator 4 years ago
TheOrator
I think what a lot of voters don't get is that the user Yuiru won this debate due to a forfeit, which upholds the resolution, which means pro wins -_-
Posted by AlwaysMoreThanYou 4 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Well played, TheOrator. That's exactly what I would have done.
Posted by TheOrator 4 years ago
TheOrator
Challenge accepted
Posted by AlwaysMoreThanYou 4 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
I would definitely take this.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by FlameofPrometheus 4 years ago
FlameofPrometheus
yuiruTheOratorTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro lost and since the votes have not been fully counted and pro forfeited yuiri(jonny depp) Wins. Because of this perfect logic brought by Pro Pro loses thus he has upheld his side
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 4 years ago
RoyLatham
yuiruTheOratorTied
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Reasons for voting decision: The Instigator has the responsibility of making a resolution that is clear and debatable. Posing a logical contradiction fails to meet the requirements, hence a conduct violation.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
yuiruTheOratorTied
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Reasons for voting decision: for con to win she must lose, for pro to win he must win, therefore for con to win pro must win. Therefore pro won. But what did I just say?
Vote Placed by AlwaysMoreThanYou 4 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
yuiruTheOratorTied
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Total points awarded:33 
Reasons for voting decision: So far, it looks like Con should be winning based off the votes.
Vote Placed by Cruxispal 4 years ago
Cruxispal
yuiruTheOratorTied
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Total points awarded:33 
Reasons for voting decision: lolol
Vote Placed by vmpire321 4 years ago
vmpire321
yuiruTheOratorTied
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Reasons for voting decision: derp
Vote Placed by Multi_Pyrocytophage 4 years ago
Multi_Pyrocytophage
yuiruTheOratorTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Giving either side the win seems like a paradox in itself.