The Instigator
CloudNine
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
imabench
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

Zidane vs Ronaldo

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/4/2011 Category: Sports
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,257 times Debate No: 19669
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

CloudNine

Pro

This debate is for all football fans that use this site. Those who truly love the game of football will know that this debate will not answer the question and only in 10 years time will a consensus emerge as to who was really better - Zidane or Ronaldo.

For the purposes of this debate, I will be taking the position that Zidane was the better player, whilst Con will assume the argument that Ronaldo was the better player.

By the way, I mean the real Ronaldo.

1st Round is acceptance.
imabench

Con

Zidane was a soccer player from 1988 to 2006 (a period of 18 years) and scored a total of 95 goals along with 31 goals for France in World Cup and Euro Cup Play

Ronaldo on the other hand is a soccer player who still plays today but started only back in 2001 (2001 to today is a period of about 10 years) in that time he has scored a total of 170 goals along with 43 goals for Portugal in World Cup and Euro Cup play....

So Ronaldo, in a career that has lasted around half as long as Zidane, has scored almost twice as much as Zidane has in seasonal play and 1.5 times as much in tournament play. Keep in mind he has been in the pro soccer leagues 8 years SHORTER than Zidane yet he already has almost twice as many goals scored as him...

Zidane = 506 seasonal appearances
Ronaldo = 298 seasonal appearances

So now keep in mind that even though Ronaldo has been in 200 LESS games than Zidane has, Ronaldo has still scored nearly twice as much as Zidane has.

Goals / Appearances = average goals per game...
Zidane: 95 / 506 = 0.1877, or 1 goal every 5.30 games,
Ronaldo: 170 / 298 = 0.5705, or 1 goal every 1.75 games,

5.30 / 1.75 = (average number of games Zidane needs to score 1 goal / average number of games Ronaldo needs to score 1 goal) = 3.02

So not only has Ronaldo scored far more goals in half the time Zidane has ever scored in his career, or that Ronaldo has half the appearances in games and has still beaten Zidane in goals scored, but Ronaldo's average number of games needed to score a goal is 3x better than Zidane's was....

Even though that is enough to sink this argument right now, i will bring up one more point.

Ronaldo = 0 headbutts of opposing players during world cup play that caused him to be kicked out and then was not available to kick penalty shots in the final game of the world cup costing his team the win.
Zidane = 1 headbutts of opposing players during world cup play that caused him to be kicked out and then was not available to kick penalty shots in the final game of the world cup costing his team the win.

I'll end for here now.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
CloudNine

Pro

You have just exposed the fact that you are not a fan of football. In Round 1, I clearly stated that I meant "the real Ronaldo." Any true football fan will understand that I mean the Brazilian, not the Portuguese one. All you did was see the name Ronaldo and with your lack of knowledge went on wikipedia looking for statistics on the Portuguese Cristiano Ronaldo.

I will now begin detailing why I believe Zidane was a better footballer than Ronaldo.

1 -- Zidane scored two goals in the 1998 FIFA World Cup Final against Brazil to win the trophy for France. Not just this, but his performances throughout the tournament were inspirational.

2 -- Won the European 2000 Championship with France, scoring in the semi-final.

3 -- Won the Golden Ball for the 2006 FIFA World Cup, even though he head butted someone.

4 -- Lead France to victory against Brazil in the 2006 World Cup with a silky performance.

5 -- Has won FIFA World Player of the Year: 3 TIMES.

6 -- Is the only player to have won the league's best player for each league he played in: Ligue 1, Serie A and La Liga.

7 -- Has won everything available at club level: 3 top tier domestic championships, UEFA Champions League, Intercontinental Cup and the UEFA Super Cup.

8 -- The Ballon d'Or winner of 1998.

French football legend Michel Platini said: "Technically, I think he (Zidane) is the king of what's fundamental in the game – control and passing. I don't think anyone can match him when it comes to controlling or receiving the ball."

Franz Beckenbauer said: "Zidane is one of the greatest players in history, a truly magnificent player."

Pel´┐Ż hailed Zidane: "Zidane was the magician in the game."

Marcello Lippi opined "I think Zidane is the greatest talent we've known in football these last 20 years, yet he never played the prima donna. I am honoured to have been his manager."

David Beckham has described Zidane as "the greatest of all time"

Xavi has stated that Zidane was "the '90s and early 2000's best player"

Roberto Carlos has said of Zidane that, "he is the best player I've seen",

Cesare Maldini said: "I would give up five players to have Zizou in my squad."

In 2011 Uefa.com asked players, journalist and their users to crown the best player in the UEFA Champions League of the past 20 years, Zidane topped the poll ahead of Lionel Messi.

This man has been recognised by footballing greats, football lovers and football journalists as one of the all time greats.

I ask why wasn't Ronaldo the best player in the past 20 years of the UEFA Champions League? He played in the tournament during that time. His career was almost symbiotic with Zidane's.

Moreover, Zidane scored what has been called by some as one of the greatest goals in the history of football.

Furthermore, it is not called penalty shots, but penalties. And one the topic of headbutting, I guess you would allow for someone to call your sister a whore? If you would allow that, then you obviously don't understand a culture where the sanctity and dignity of women are protected.
imabench

Con

Not being a fan of soccer wasnt one of the requirements for this debate, so dont hate on me for getting mistaken between two players known by the same name. Secondly, how the heck am I supposed to know what you mean by "By the way, I mean the real Ronaldo." ? You couldnt have just typed out his name?

Anyways, apparently in order to make his argument stronger, the Pro is comparing Zidane to a lesser known Ronaldo than the one I thought he was referring to, The Pro is referring to Ronaldo Luis de Lima of Portugal, not Christiano Ronaldo of Portugal who plays on Real Madrid.

Ronaldo was a soccer player from 1993 and just retired in 2011, so his career lasted 18 years which is just as long as Zidanes, however I would like to point out that despite having careers of equal length, Ronaldo has done statistically better than Zidane.

Goals by Ronaldo lifetime = 247
Goals by Zidane lifetime = 95
Ronald has scored over 2 and a half times more goals than Zidane has even though they both have equal careers.

Appearances by Ronaldo = 343
Appearances by Zidane = 506
So even though they have equal careers, Ronaldo has appeared in far fewer games than Zidane ever has, yet he has till scored 2.5x as much as Zidane has.

247 / 343 = average goals scored by Ronaldo per game = 0.720 or about 1 goal per 1.4 games
95 / 506 = average goals scored by Zidane per game = 0.188 or about 1 goal per 5.3 games

I would like to thank the Pro for pointing out I used the wrong Ronaldo, because it turns out that the one he wants to compare Zidane to is actually even better than the Ronaldo I was originally referring too!

As for the Con's "arguments" about why Zidane is better

1) Zidane may have scored twice, but I would like to point out that the total number of goals that Zidane scored in the entire tournament...... was 2. Zidane had NO GOALS going into the Final match-up but then through sheer luck and timing scored twice. Also you may notice something peculiar in the stats of that tournament.

goals by Zidane = 2,
goals by Ronaldo = 3
http://en.wikipedia.org...

2) He again only scored 2 goals in the whole tournament, Also the Euro Cup is only open to European teams and not Brazil (who Ronaldo plays for) so this argument cant be used because we cannot compare the performances fo these two soccer stars in a tournament where only one of them (yours) played in it.

3) Zidane and Ronaldo both scored 3 goals in the entire tournament, but Zidane actually needed more games to do that, and even his third goal came off a controversial penalty call
http://en.wikipedia.org...

4) France didnt win the 2006 World cup against Brazil genius, France LOST against Italy, how is it that a "true" fan such as yourself completely imagined 1) Brazil was in the final when they werent, and 2) that France won, even though they lost....
http://en.wikipedia.org...

5) Zidane and Ronaldo have won that award 3 times....
Ronaldo won in 1996, 1997, and 2002.
Zidane won in 1998, 2000, and 2003

So let the record show that Ronaldo had won the same award twice (in a row) before Zidane even won his first one, and keep in mind that Ronaldo's career began a year LATER than Zidane was....
http://en.wikipedia.org...

6) of These are 3 leagues, Brazil doesn't even play in 2 of them. Ligue 1 is french only, and Serie A is Italian only.
Again this argument should not be used because you cannot compare the performances of both athletes since only one of them (yours.....) actually played in it.

7) UEFA relates only to the Serie A league, the soccer division that Brazil is not allowed to play in, again this cant be admissable since both players werent in it and only yours was...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

8) Ronaldo won that award twice (Zidane just once) in 1997 and 2002
Again note that Ronaldo won the same award as Zidane, BEFORE Zidane won it, AFTER Zidane's career was already started...

As for all the quotes that the Pro found about Zidane, he copy-pasted the entire argument from a wikipedia article.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Ronaldo isnt considered in legacy among the UEFA because that is only for European teams, Ronaldo only plays in Brazilian teams, i thought a "true" soccer fan such as yourself would know that...

"Moreover, Zidane scored what has been called by some as one of the greatest goals in the history of football."
Um, so has David Beckham, Pele, Ronaldo, Christiano Ronaldo, Mia Hamm, and Abby Wombach so this isnt really a valid argument....

"Furthermore, it is not called penalty shots, but penalties"
I know that bu voters might not, they dont watch soccer (because thats what we call it here in America, soccer) so I put I described them like that so that when you argue that "Zidane scored 2 penalties" then voters dont think its a bad thing.....

"I guess you would allow for someone to call your sister a whore? If you would allow that, then you obviously don't understand a culture where the sanctity and dignity of women are protected."

1) I dont have a sister, 2) I do respect women, 3) It happened once and Zidane didnt hesitate to headbutt him. He could have easily walked away (cause thats what he did for most of that world cup final, WALK) but no, someone says one sly remark and Zidane blows his fuse, hardly something that would define a "great" player wouldnt you agree?


Debate Round No. 2
CloudNine

Pro

Apprarently, Ronaldo Luis is lesser known than Cristiano Ronaldo. Do you actually know who this person was? What a joke.

Firstly, Ronaldo scored more goals because he was a striker. For those who don't know, this is the player who is responsible for scoring the goals for a team. Meanwhile, Zidane was a creative midfielder. His job is too create the chances for the likes of Ronaldo to score. If you ever watched Zidane, then you would see the passes he gave to his team mates.

Furthermore, the number of appearances is in favour of Zidane, demonstrating that his manager plays him more than Ronaldo as he was more valuable to the team.

By the way, if you didn't know, the greatness of a player isn't measured by numbers. It's by what he has done on a pitch. That's why the defender Franz Beckenbauer is rated so highly.

Of course, the real Ronaldo is better than Cristiano Ronaldo, as if a real football fan wouldn't know that.

1 -- Arguing that scoring two goals in a World Cup Final is insignificant astounds me. Have you ever watched one of them. It just proves that Zidane has the ability to perform when his team needs him most and he can deliver on the biggest stage. Furthermore, if you didn't know already, France beat Brazil 3-0 in that Final. Ronaldo was playing.

2 -- Instead of claiming that we cannot compare them, why not acknowledge the fact again, that when needed on a big stage, Zidane doesn't disappoint. It seems as though you find scoring goals in tournaments as insignificant. Moreover, actually watching the performances would make clear for you the class that Zidane had whilst playing football.

3 -- If a midfielder and a striker score the same amount of goals, then the midfielder has done the better job. Moreover, if you have watched the penalty and still arrogantly find it to be insignificant, then leave this debate. You will never understand football. To have the bottle, to chip Buffon in a World Cup Final. Enough said.

4 -- Funny, it seems my opponent doesn't think France beat Brazil in the 2006 World Cup. Then insults me. Nice try mate. France beat Brazil 1-0, Ronaldo was playing and it was Zidane who passed the ball for the French goal. Try again mate.

5 -- Both have won it 3 times, both second place once and Zidane has come third twice and Ronaldo once. Zidane superior in your beloved statistics.

6 -- Again, it is clear that my opponent knows nothing about football and just went onto wikipedia. "Ligue 1 is french only, and Serie A is Italian only." NO. Ligue 1 is the top league in France. Serie A is the top league in Italy. Zidane won best player in both leagues. This shows he was a top player who could adapt his performances to different playing environments. Additionally, Ronaldo played in Serie A for both Inter Milan and AC Milan. He never won best player in that league, even though he played for two teams there.

"of These are 3 leagues, Brazil doesn't even play in 2 of them." <-- FAIL MUCH? Brazil isn't a person. Ronaldo is.
Completely failed on that point.

7 -- I fail to understand what you mean here. Again, someone who doesn't know football trying to speak about it -- becomes babble.

It doesn't matter if my quotes are from wiki or your stats are from wiki. This is what other great footballer have said about Zidane. What right do you have to disregard their statements. You didn't even know who Ronaldo was. Joke.

Furthermore, Con decides that Ronaldo isn't considered in legacy?? Have you actually read about Ronaldo. He was considered by many to be one of the greatest strikers of all time. He and Zidane were both galacticos. Thats the reason I started this debate. It is near impossible to place one higher than the other. What I wanted was a football fan to come a debate this with me so it would be interesting. All thats happened, is a joker called imabench decided to accept.

Actually, isn't the quote -- "All geniuses are flawed." ?? Anyways, I reiterate my earlier point which is that the dignity of women should be upheld at all times and can never be breached and whatever the situation, it must be dealt with swiftly to ensure that it won't happen again.

I was hoping to have an engaging debate with a fellow football fan but instead I got this. I do not apologise for my tone. Con just pasted numbers and then demonstrated his clear disability with regards to football. Do not accept another debate on football, for the sake of the instigator.
imabench

Con

It seems that my statistics showing that Ronaldo is indeed better than Zidane has caused my opponent to go of the deep end causing him to attack me for my lack of knowledge of soccer, what a shame.....

If the Pro wanted a soccer fan like him then he should have requested one, but he didnt specifically ask for one so that is his fault, not mine.

As for his points
1) The Pro has forfeited the fact that Zidane scored less goals in the tournament than Ronaldo did
2) The Pro has forfeited the fact that you cannot compare the two in statistics over how they perfom in a league if they do not perform in the same League
3) The Pro has forfeited the fact that Zidane played more games than Ronaldo did in the cup and Zidane still fell short
4) I mistook what his argument was and I apologize however that argument is still regarding the same World Cup where in the end Ronaldo scored more goals than Zidane
5) The Pro has forfeited that Ronaldo won the FIFA World Player of the Year twice in a row before Zidane even won it once
6) The Pro has forfeited that the leagues which Zidane has won awards in are leagues that Ronaldo is not allowed to play in
7) The Pro has failed to acknowledge that Ronaldo was not eligible to be considered for the UEFA as their top players
8) The Pro has forfeited the fact that Ronaldo won the Ballon d'Or twice while Zidane only won it once

" It doesn't matter if my quotes are from wiki "
Oh im not saying thats a bad thing, what im saying is that it does matter that you completely plagiarized half of your argument from Wikipedia. Ask the voters, they dont take plagarization on here too nicely, and they also dont like Wikipedia. I only used it to get the career numbers of the two and theres nothing wrong with that.

Pro has forfeited that half the sources where these alleged statements came from on Wikipedia do not work
Pro has forfeited that Zidane and Ronaldo have both scored their own share of great goals in history
Pro has forfeited that Zidane has a very short and abrupt temper

Maybe the Pro doesnt know, but numbers say a lot more about a person's performance than personal opinion, that being said I would like to reinforce that
1) Ronaldo has scored more goals than Zidane (247 to 95)
2) Hes done it in far less actual games than Zidane has (343 to 506)
3) He scores far more frequently than Zidane does (on average 2.5x greater)
4) Almost every major award Zidane as won Ronaldo had already won before he did
5) Ronaldo has almost routinely performed better than Zidane has in World Cups in goals scored

For the record, I did not paste numbers, I took actual stats and used them to show how Ronaldo is a better player than Zidane is, Pro cannot deny that.

"Do not accept another debate on football, for the sake of the instigator."

Well for the sake of Debate.com,
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Its called Soccer ;D
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
he wont answer, he hasnt been online since this debate ended :P
Posted by ilovedebate 5 years ago
ilovedebate
You have just exposed the fact that you are not a fan of football. In Round 1, I clearly stated that I meant "the real Ronaldo." Any true football fan will understand that I mean the Brazilian, not the Portuguese one.

lol...why?
Posted by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
lmao wow, a 1 point win...
Posted by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
I was just having fun at that point ;D
Posted by kimjohnnyboy 5 years ago
kimjohnnyboy
lol. the last argument cracked me up
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by MrCarroll 5 years ago
MrCarroll
CloudNineimabenchTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: I'm not sure the two can be compared. They were both great at what they did. Personally I would have taken either to be on my team. But I felt Pro didn't conduct himself very well so I'll give Con a point.