The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Winning
24 Points
The Contender
Aerogant
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points

a person cannot know they are saved - they must entertain the possiblity of error

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
dairygirl4u2c
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/5/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 471 times Debate No: 60002
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (5)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

a person cannot know they are saved - they must entertain the possiblity of error

John appears to have taught you can known your are saved.
1 John 5
"13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

St. Paul did not lack any confidence in his salvation toward the end of his life.
' For I am already on the point of being sacrificed; the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing. (2 Timothy 4:6-8)

2 Peter 1:
10 Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall; 11 so there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

here Paul seems to say "as far as i know i'm good. but that doesn't mean i'm good. only god knows"

1 Cor. 4:3 It does not concern me in the least that I be judged by you or any human tribunal; I do not even pass judgment on myself; 4 I am not conscious of anything against me, but I do not thereby stand acquitted; the one who judges me is the Lord."

Council of Trent teaches you cannot know that you are saved...
"since no one can know with the certainty of faith, which cannot be subject to error, that he has obtained the grace of God. [Council of Trent, Sixth Session] "

the only way to reconcile what the bible says is to take the least common denominator.... that 'when you know you are saved' you must admit it is subject to error.

"10 I want to know Christ"yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Phil 3:7-14 "

Matthew 24:13 says, "but the one that stands firm to the end will be saved".

And the seeds thtat grew on rocky soil and didn't grow properly is like the man who heard the word then let it go.

2 Peter 2:20-21
20For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of [our] Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

"But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway." (1Cor 9:27). And again: "Wherefore he who thinks that he stands, let him take heed lest he fall." (1 Cor 10:12)
Aerogant

Con

Considering that ruthless men can live up to 100 after doing drugs, raping, stealing, inflicting every known pan to mankind, I would say that your question is truly missing out on a lot of self-evident points.
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

considering what you talk about has nothing to do with this debate, it is fair to say you are missing out on real argumentation.
Aerogant

Con

Considering you don't understand that possibility of error does not have to be recognized for someone to be accepted as per the accord of the "text" you are referring to.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

opponent engages in 'jibber jabber'
Aerogant

Con

Opponent gets mad when they can't win, so accuses you without providing further argument.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
dairygirl4u2cAerogantTied
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Total points awarded:51 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro, capitalize. Con had no counterargument relevant here. Pro cited Bible.
Vote Placed by Domr 2 years ago
Domr
dairygirl4u2cAerogantTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: no rebuttal was made to the premise
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
dairygirl4u2cAerogantTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro is on topic
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
dairygirl4u2cAerogantTied
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Total points awarded:51 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro didn't capitalize. Con offered no intelligible arguments. Pro alone offered sources.
Vote Placed by mishapqueen 2 years ago
mishapqueen
dairygirl4u2cAerogantTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: No real arguments from Con. Excellent arguments from Pro, although she let Con derail the debate.