The Instigator
why_why
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
AlexanderOc
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

abortion

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
AlexanderOc
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/22/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 731 times Debate No: 65665
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

why_why

Pro

I believe that a women should be allowed to do what she pleases with her body, and it shouldn't be in the goverments control. Abortion can save children from:
1. Extreme pain
2. Extreme cases of brain damage
3. Being born in poverty
4. Incest
5. Major diformities
and if a young girl is raped who has a body too young to produce children, and it is much too emotionally difficult for a young girl to give birth to a child anyway, please note by young child I mean under 14, abortion can stop her from dying in birth, and the child from having to carry with him that his mom is a dead 13 year old. Good luck to my opponet.
AlexanderOc

Con

I. Opening

I would first like to start off by greeting my opponent and thanking him for creating this debate.
My opponent and I will be sharing the BoP in this debate since this is a dual sided topic where both cases can build arguments. Therefore, I will be providing a construct along with my refuatations.

Now, without further delay, onto the debate!

II. Cross-Examination

Pro mentions in his initial paragraph that women should be allowed to do what she want with her body. This is true, however irrelevant. At what point does a fetus become a seperate entity from it's mother? Surely it's immediately after conception. The organism growing inside her is no longer working to benefit it's parent. Instead it is taking the role of a human, relying on her for nutrition and protection. Meaning that the abortion isn't only affecting her and her body, it is a decision to decide whether to kill something or not. This is should not be up to what she "wants".

My opponent brought up a few points in the first half of his opening argument. Most of them can be disregarded with a single argument.
He claims that abortion can save a child from having to deal with isues like pain, brain injuries, and poverty. However when you consider the same effect can be achieved by simply slaughtering the child upon birth, then you can see the error in this logic. Death is an easy way to avoid any problem, but it shouldn't be left up to another as to whether a solution this permanent is justified.

Second half of this argument is much more substantial as it has been the focus of most pro-abortion constructs. If any woman, a child especially, is raped and is finds herself a potential mother, should she be given the right to prevent the birth of the child to save herself from either death or other parent-related issues?

The answer is far from simple but one must consider when searching for it that abortion, if practiced at all, should only be seen as a last resort. Just as killing anyone should never be considered unless all other option are exahusted. So, in a sense, abortion should be an option, but not one left up to the mother. A mom is typically not qualified to determine whether birth will be fatal or not. A trained physician on the other hand would be able to make the call with an objective outlook.

III. Construct

This is the basis of my argument. Abortion is a very serious matter. Serious matters are best left up to those trained to deal with them and make decisions that are an objective compromise. A mother carrying a child has naturally developed a bias to the fetus, this could cause her to make irrational decisions such as keeping a potententially deadly child or killing a prefectly healthy one. You could argue that she has the best interest of it in mind due to the natural bonds she develops, but again, those bonds aren't a human nurse with an objective best interest to both the child and mother.

IV. Closing

Pro presented a common pro-decision argument that stands some ground, however doesn't consider bias.

I'd like to see how he refutes these claims, so I pass it on to him for round 2!


Debate Round No. 1
why_why

Pro

Of course nurses and doctors should definetly be involved in such an important decision. But in the end it is up to the mom and dad. Like, the doctor can't tie the mom to the bed and force the abortion, nor can he kick her out of the hospital and refuse to perform the abortion.
The diffirence between slaughtering the baby at birth and getting an abortion is that slaughtering a child would hurt it. Abortion will be completely painless.
Some of the pros of aabortion are:

" the us supreme court has declared abortion to be a fundemential right
The constitution gives a "guarantee of certain areas and zones of privacy." This is a right of privacy, a women's decision on her pregnancy.

" reproductive choice empowers women by giving them control over their own body
The choice on having or not having a baby gives a women independence and control over her future. This could give women more rights and make them be equal to men in rights

"personhood begins after a fetus becomes "viable" (able to survive outside the womb) or after birth, not a conception
Embryos and Fetuses are not independent, self-determination beings, so abortion is a termination of pregnancy, not a baby. A person's age is calculated from birth date,not conception.

" Fetuses are incapable of feeling pain when abortions are performed
The cortex is needed for pain perception. The cortex doesn't become functional unroll the 26th week of pregnancy, long after most abortions are performed. There are no evidence a fetus can experience pain.

" access to legal, professionally performed abortions reduces s
maternal injury and death caused by unsafe, illegal abortions
Before abortions were legal, women would try to perform the abortion by themselves by coat hangers, knitting needles or radiator flush. Or they would go to unsafe "back alley"abortionists. In 1972 32 deaths were caused by this. When it was legalized, this number dropped to 2, unsafe abortions cause 68,000 deaths worldwide each year.

" women who are denied abortions are more likely to become unemployed, to be on public welfare, to be below the poverty line, and to become victims of domestic violence
A study shows women who were turned down an abortion were 3 times as likely to be below the poverty level then women who got an abortion. 76% of the turn aways became unemployed, only 44% of women who got abortions were unemployed. Women turned down an abortion are twice as likely to stay in abusive relationships and be victims of domestic violence.

" reproductive choice protects women from financial disadvantage
42% of women having abortions are below the federal poverty level. In a study in 2005 they asked d women why they had abortion, 73% said they couldn't afford it. 38%t said it would interfere with their education

" a baby should not come into the world unwanted
the reason why babies are being abused and tortured and killed could revolve around the parents not wanting them. So they kill them, and do so by torture (not justifying child abuse) the mom and dad could also be neglectfull, not caring about what they are doing, therefore another criminal would be raised.

" abortion reduces crime
Legalized abortion has contributed significantly to recent crone reductions. Around 18 years after abortion was legalized, crime days began to drop arubtly and states that legalized abortion earlier dropped before.

"abortion is justified as means of population control
The United Nations estimated that the world's population will increase to 9.3 billion by 2050, that would be like adding another India and China. That would be a disaster.
You can see my source here: http://abortion.procon.org...
AlexanderOc

Con

I. Rebuttals

My opponent brought up the point that specialists should be involved in guiding the decision, but the final say should be left up to the parents. My question being why? To what basis is it determined that parents would be better equipped to handle the decision to end/prevent a life? Specialists, as I mentioned before are very well informed, and have a better objective stance as to whether the abortion needs to be performed. If it doesn't, then the doctor should be able to refuse the mother the ability to prevent a perfectly capable organism from being brought into the world.

II. Refutations

" the us supreme court has declared abortion to be a fundemential right"

This isn't a pro to abortion, it is the way things are. We are debating as to whether or not this should be the case.

" reproductive choice empowers women by giving them control over their own body"

What? Giving women the power to destroy a fetus is a good method to equalizing their rights with men? This is a digression, but the aim is to give women equal rights to men, not to give them more of certain rights and men having other rights.

"personhood begins after a fetus becomes "viable" (able to survive outside the womb) or after birth, not a conception"

Is there any reason this arbitrary time period in fetal development is any more correct than personhood beginning at conception? Not really. Therefore this abstract definition holds no more ground than the latter.


" Fetuses are incapable of feeling pain when abortions are performed"
This is not a Pro to abortion, if anything this is neutral. According this Pro's logic, lethal injection is good because it doesn't hurt the victim.


" access to legal, professionally performed abortions reduces s
maternal injury and death caused by unsafe, illegal abortions"

I'm not denying that women should have access to abortions, I'm arguing that they shouldn't be the one's deciding to terminate the life. If the mom feels it necessary to act against the word of a phyiscian, that the fault of her.

" women who are denied abortions are more likely to become unemployed, to be on public welfare, to be below the poverty line, and to become victims of domestic violence"

" reproductive choice protects women from financial disadvantage 42% of women having abortions are below the federal poverty level. In a study in 2005 they asked d women why they had abortion, 73% said they couldn't afford it. 38%t said it would interfere with their education"

They were probably more likely to be unemployed because they were below the federal poverty level. You can't attribute the unemployment to a lack of abortion only due to arbitrary correlation, especially when the parents were already suffering financially.

Not only that, but food stamps and adoption are always options. I'm sure you could ask any foster child as to whether they would rather be there or never have lived at all and get the former answer.

" a baby should not come into the world unwanted"

Same as above, foster care. Parents shouldn't get to decide whether they "want" another human to be born onto this earth.


" abortion reduces crime"

Correlation does not equal causation. Especially 18 years after the event happened.


"abortion is justified as means of population control"

Justified is a subjective term.
Lethal inection is also an effective "justifiable" means of population control.

III. Closing

Pro's points didn't stand to help his case much, most could be dealt with in similar ways.
Pro has failed to actually refute my opening construct; the only argument he provided was that mom's and dad's should choose, with no supporting evidence.

On to round 3!
Debate Round No. 2
why_why

Pro

why_why forfeited this round.
AlexanderOc

Con

Arguments extended.
Debate Round No. 3
why_why

Pro

why_why forfeited this round.
AlexanderOc

Con

Extended.
Debate Round No. 4
why_why

Pro

why_why forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
why_whyAlexanderOcTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con did an excellent job of dismantling Pros arguments. Pro ff many times also.