The Instigator
okuuuuuur
Con (against)
The Contender
Zakeishe
Pro (for)

abortion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/6/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 201 times Debate No: 113587
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

okuuuuuur

Con

Abortion is the ultimate exploitation of women.

"Alice Paul

It"s not good for women to go through the procedure [abortion] and have something living sucked out of their bodies. It belittles women. Even though some women say, "Oh, I don"t mind to have one," every time a woman has an abortion, it just crushes her self-esteem smaller and smaller and smaller.

"Dolores O"Riordan.

A person is a person no matter how small.

"Dr. Seuss

Abortion is legal because babies can"t vote.

"Joseph Bonkowski

I couldn`t have said it better myself, in my opinion those brave people have a fantastic sense of justice.
I am an Irish 15 year old girl and a humanitarian. I am not religious but I do not need to believe in God to know that abortion is in no way right.
I believe that being pro life goes hand in hand with being pro lgbtq, being anti racist as these are all views just letting people live their life, because we have no right to decide to undermine, persecute or slaughter these humans just because we do not want them there or they re inconvenient for us to have to deal with.
Something that I found extremely hateful and wrongful is that 90% OF BABIES WITH DOWN SYNDROME ARE ABORTED, now talk about ableism!
I would not be alive today if my granny did not survive the old style of abortion. How can we have any human rights without the right to life. The upcoming referendum in Ireland to repeal the 8th amendment is just like giving a blank cheque to our government to do whatever they like to the only thing making Ireland an extremely safe place to be pregnant in 2018. Our government~ who are for the most part pro choice~, are only pro choice, because they only value surface appearance and hence,go along with the trendy opinion. If you have any sence of justice or can see past the shockingly biased national media i.e. RTE, ~who my parents still have to pay their taxes to~ If you want to prevent 3700 children from dieing per day due to abortion(amount of children dying everyday from abortions in America), if you want to keep Ireland as a world leader for care in pregnant women, if yo want to prevent full term abortion and euthanasia~which I believe will be our next referendum~, then vote no!
As Nell McAfferty a very famous Irish liberalist, who is famous for bringing a train of contraceptives into the Republic of Irelend from the North, recently said : "Abortion was beyond our consciousness and here we are, 100 years after slaughters like the Somme and places like that, offering abortion on request."
"I really don"t believe in abortion. It"s like killing a baby?-Justin Bieber
Zakeishe

Pro

I accept your challenge. I try to make everything I say as clear and unbiased as I can, please tell me if you find something unclear/opinionated in my writing.

First, let's address your quotes.

'"Abortion is the ultimate exploitation of women" - Alice Paul'

No, it's not. Abortion is entirely a women's choice, which is one of the reasons why people around the world fight for the right to get an abortion; to have a choice between having a child, or not. It's also why the argument for abortion is called 'Pro choice'. It's a choice.

'"I am in no position to judge other women, you know. But I mean, why did she get pregnant? It's not good for women to go through the procedure [abortion] and have something living sucked out of their bodies. It belittles women. Even though some women say, 'Oh, I don't mind to have one,' every time a woman has an abortion, it just crushes her self-esteem smaller and smaller and smaller." - Dolores O'Riordan'

To start this one off, I'll mention that while Dolores isn't judging women that plan to have or have had an abortion, she is very biased (and maybe uneducated) in her argument. There are 3 things wrong with this, I'll explain what those things are and why they're wrong.

1. While she [Dolores] isn't judging women, she is projecting. This basically meaning that, what she says about other women, what they feel/how they must feel after getting an abortion isn't necessarily true. It's completely subjective, so the minute amount of feelings she says any women will feel probably (in this case, most likely. i.e. why I said Dolores is projecting.) applies to her.

2. What Dolores says about abortions not being healthy is false, and the statement seems to be fabricated from her own assumptions, judging by her wording. But, enough of that. My short rebuttal to that is: Abortion is scientifically proven to be psychologically, epidemiologically, and physically safe (major complications occur .25% of the time).

3. People get pregnant on accident, either by broken condom, a faulty pill, or unprotected sex with no intentions of having a baby.

'"I really don't believe in abortion. It's like killing a baby?" - Justin Bieber'

No, it's not. A fetus never would've never known it lived in the first place, and as it were being killed it wouldn't protest in some form against it. Both are false for babies.

'"Abortion was beyond our consciousness and here we are, 100 years after slaughters like the Somme and places like that, offering abortion on request." - Nell McAfferty'

Nell McAfferty in this quote completely forgets that change exists and occurs in humanity. Ignoring that, abortion should be a right to all the women who want/need it. It's not slaughter, nor is it murder. Murder is unlawful, and slaughter is for food. Abortion is neither.

'"A person is a person no matter how small" - Dr. Seuss'

What's funny about this is that, this quote has nothing to do with abortion at all, but is used by pro-life arguments all the time. Instead, the quote delves into the microscopic level of reality (My words, not what was actually meant to be implied) in Dr Seuss' book 'Horton hears a who!'. But, even then, it doesn't matter that 'a person is a person no matter how small'.

A zygote is technically a human, but it has no potential to do anything close to the complexity that a human can (without developing into a blastocyst that is). A zygote is not sentient, nor is it coherent, and it is so dependent and connected it's
(for lack of better words) carrier that it responds to the human brain directly (much how you can move your arm with your mind, but can't move a baby's arm with your mind, as it is a separate entity).

'"Abortion is legal because babies can't vote" - Joseph Bonkowski'

And if they could, the poll would be as if the votes were picked at random. Quite literally, babies & fetuses don't have the mental capability to be coherent (until they're around 3), and the entire abortion situation is pretty much summed up like this:

Everything living deserves to live, and avoidable/unnatural/unnecessary killing of living things should be punished, and not condoned or even supported. This should stay true until that living thing effects another living in a negative way, like how a girl of your age would not be prepared (alone) to bear a child. In the end, to stop the suffering on both sides (the mother and the child), to abort the fetus, before it's a baby. What baffles me is the lack of understanding [in pro-life arguments] that one life is not the most important issue. One baby that is born that shouldn't be could ruin many more than just 1 life, which includes the child. But anyway, you may be thinking: Why can't I just give it up for adoption?

1. Initial medical costs

2. Adoption is very black and white with the children that are up for it. It's a hit or miss every time, and the target is very small.

3. Foster homes are hit or misses to, except there is a very high chance that the foster parents aren't very capable.

Now let's address your main points, in bullet points (to be clearer)

1. Pro-life does not go 'hand in hand' with pro-LGBTQ. They're two entirely different things for two entirely different reasons.

2. If a child is inconvenient for the parent, it is HIGHLY unlikely that the child is going to have a good adolescent life. I've experienced this myself with my own parents, so I party use this as evidence for this to be true.

3. 90% of babies with down syndrome are aborted because the costs to raising a child with down syndrome is to high. Also, as insensitive as it sounds, most women do not want DS babies, and it is their choice if they want them or not. This is an ableism
vs. women's rights case, which isn't that simple in the first place.

4. Lastly, this isn't a black and white issue, and it DEFINITELY isn't a trend. The reason abortions have increased in popularity in recent years is because of the financial burden (ergo, the economy), the constant increase of social media and connectivity between people around the world, and the influx in people fighting for women's rights. However, the REASONS for why women do it are hugely different. You can't attack that that entire spectrum (backed by women's rights) with "The baby probably wants to live." and expect everyone to agree with you. Because, take this how you may but, nobody ever asked to live.
Debate Round No. 1
okuuuuuur

Con

I respect your opinion @zakeishe and I have no intention of changing it. I only want to give my view to show that there is to give you my opinion in comparison to your opinion. Hopefully you will see that there is some substance to my opinion.
Basically, on the top of my chimney there is a nest of jackdaws and it is illegal for me to move the nest, because the mother is minding all her eggs which I fully accept because I know they are endangered etc., but then I had a brainwave and realised that the government protects the life of unborn jackdaws more than unborn human!
Anyway, I don't think planned parenthood is for women's healthcare, because, for example, take a pregnancy centre, it gives you nappies, formula, clothes, monetary assistance, housing, employment, counseling, adoption refferals, parent classes.. On the other hand, an abortion clinic kills your child and sends you home with cheap condoms.
Abortion is the ultimate exploitation of women, because, well I'll tell you something that happened. My aunt was pregnant with my little cousin and was told that she would have a disability, because she would be born so premature, but obviously at this time abortion was not an option in Ireland (it honestly probably will by the end of this month, which I woulds hate) and anyway, when she had little Layla it turns out there was nothing wrong with her, other than she might be a little bit skinny. When she was back outside waiting in the hospital, a lady told her how lucky she was to have her baby and that if she was in England she would have been aborted. At first my aunt didn't believe the lady and questioned why any hospital would ever make her kill her own, perfectly healthy child, but then she realised in England you are so vulnerable to the doctors decisions on your situation and you may be hauled into an abortion of your child against your will. Abortion does not make you unpregnant, it makes you the parent of a deceased child. That is a burden that some doctor has just put on you through manipulation and that does not liberate women in any way, in my opinion. What someone might call her choice, was actually her daughter!
I was thinking back on what Nell McAfferty said about the killing at the Sommes and it made me think about the extermination of Jewish people: they did not choose genocide! Nor, did blacks choose slavery. Nor did unborn children choose abortion! Everyone gets a choice but the victim!
Do you not think it's absolutely bockers that we as people are debating on whether babies should have the right to be born. I accept that its not just as simple as that, but without abortion the life of the mother is still the number one priority. If the baby dies naturally in the process of saving the mother's life then so be it! That's life. But I fully reject the argument that it is too expensive to have a special needs child or even just a child, because that is teaching our children and others that life is disposable and cheap!
I don't think it is correct for the fetus should be as dehumanised as you make it. Just think about it,why is it called a `double homicide` when a pregnant woman is killed? And why is a bacteria on Mars considered life, if a heartbeat on Earth is not considered life. It's like fetus who is wanted is a person but if s/he is unwanted they are not a person. It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human being being begins at conception.
In the upcoming referendum in Ireland, if I had a vote, I would vote no to abortion being brought in, because as a girl and soon to be a woman, who plans to live the rest of their life and start a family here, I believe it is something that should be kept out of Ireland. Taking into consideration that I could be raped or accidentally get pregnant at a terrible time or even have complications in my pregnancy that could be life-threatening, I would never get an abortion, because from my point of view an abortion will not solve any of those problems. I may have forgot to mention that both my parents are GPs and I listen to their opinions because I trust it and they are both very experienced in the medical profession ( I will say that my dad had to be convinced about pro life, but the mother is hard core, she is my main sourse of opinion, along with personal research).
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by ecksdee123 3 months ago
ecksdee123
I am willing to continue this debate since Zakeishe forfeited.
Posted by ecksdee123 3 months ago
ecksdee123
I am willing to continue this debate since Zakeishe forfeited.
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