The Instigator
laleona89
Con (against)
Losing
4 Points
The Contender
vardas0antras
Pro (for)
Winning
16 Points

abortion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/17/2010 Category: Health
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,158 times Debate No: 14072
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (4)

 

laleona89

Con

I believe abortion is an act of murder. I am totally against abortion.
I'm using the first round to explain the debste, my oponent may start with his argument or may just forfeit or say whatever he wants. The second round we will state our arguments and the other two rounds left, we just rebutt our opponents arguments.
vardas0antras

Pro

Thank you for the debate and may I ask you to be more clear for example are we talking about legalization of abortion or is abortion excusable, this would be much appreciated. Also sorry for my late reply.

Thank you,
V0Antras
Debate Round No. 1
laleona89

Con

I am going to start with one of my favorite quotes from Mother Teresa "The greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion because it's the direct killing of the innocent child by the mother herself; and if we can accept that a mother can murder even own child, how can we tell others not to kill one another." Abortion will always be an injustificable act of murder. No infant nor unborn child should be denied from her right of life. I totally agree with Mother Teresa that abortion is an act of murder by the mother. Why is it wrong to kill another person if they are allowing abortion.

In 1973 the U.S. Court legalized abortion. In the next source you can see about how many women have had abortion. Thus would equal to the amount of murder since 1990, imagine how many innocent lives have been taken.

Many people try to justify abortions. For example, rape victims believe their case is justified, but the truth is that by having an abortion you are punishing an innocent unborn child which you could of found a nice family for him to be adopted. By having the abortion you are taking the life of a little person that is growing inside you; when the one you should be punishing is the person who commited that horrible act of rape.
Another reason in which they think is justificable is when they are under 18, but the truth is that most of this young girls brought that on them selves. They were having sex unprotected when they shouldn't been having sex. They are just taking the easy way out instead of taking responsability for their act
I will end this par of my argument with stating the legal principal that says "innocent until proven guilty." Which is voilated in abortion when punishing an innocent life that didn't do anything wrong.
vardas0antras

Pro

Thank you again for the debate though you did forget to be more specific. Now I have to suppose that the resolution is:
Abortion is murder.

My reasons as to why it's not murder:

A fetus:
A fetus is not a rational or conscious agent and therefore does not hold a serious right to life. The fetus may be a human (in the biological sense), but it is not a person. In her book, On The Moral and Legal Status of Abortion, Mary Anne Warren - an American writer and philosophy professor that taught at San Francisco State University - details five psychological criteria for personhood. According to Warren, these qualities include consciousness and in particular sentience; the capacity to reason; self-motivated activity; the capacity to communicate messages; and lastly, the presence of self-concepts.Since a fetus does not possess any of the above qualities, it can rightfully not be considered a person. Given these criteria, it logically follows that a human fetus cannot possess the same right to life that a grown adult has since it does not qualify as a person.

Woman Body:
A woman's body knows to dispel a fetus if it has any serious mutations that would prevent it from becoming a functional human being. This is why babies are never born without major organs, since the woman miscarries long before the fetus is carried to term. Abortion is thus something that is routinely practiced by natural biological processes in nature.

Womans Life:
There have been many cases where the child will infact endanger the mother, such as in this case:
http://www.foxnews.com...

Definitions:
Murder:
The crime of unlawfully killing or an immoral killing of a person usually with malice.
Kill:
Taking away ones life.
Debate Round No. 2
laleona89

Con

I did clarify in comments if you read them I said it was about legalization of abortion.
DEFINITIONS:
MURDER: the unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
ABORTION: destruction of a fetus, also called feticide.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
FETICIDE: intentional destruction of a human fetus.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

REBUTT:
1) "A fetus is not a rational or conscious agent and therefore does not hold a serious right to life. The fetus may be a human (in the biological sense), but it is not a person." -pro
2) "Given these criteria, it logically follows that a human fetus cannot possess the same right to life that a grown adult has since it does not qualify as a person."
3)"Abortion is thus something that is routinely practiced by natural biological processes in nature."

Con:
1) In article 2 from the Declaration of Human Rights it says the EVERYONE is entitled to ALL the rights and freedoms set forth in this declaration. In article 3 from the Declaration of Human Rights it says that EVERYONE has the right to life, security and liberty.
http://www.un.org...

2) Isn't the name of the Declaration in which our rights are stated named "The Declaration of Human Rights" and not "The Declaration of People's Rights."

3)Abortion is something that is routinely practiced by natural biological processes in nature, but the kind of abortion in which the open your stomach and rip apart a human life is not a natural process. This type of abortion is the one when a doctor manipulates something that should be chosen by nature and not by the person.
vardas0antras

Pro

Sorry but I didn't read the comment section, anyhow round 2 wasn't a waste.

1 2)
" 'The Declaration of Human Rights' and not 'The Declaration of People's Rights.' "
o I am afraid this won't work unless people at that time this was written knew what a fetus is.
o You've not addressed my points properly. You're arguing that it shouldn't be legal because some folks agree with you. May I remind you that I have the consensus on my side:
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org...
o How did your response changed what I said ? In other words you've not yet attacked my conclusion nor my premises.

3)
" This type of abortion is the one when a doctor manipulates something that should be chosen by nature and not by the person."
That is a flimsy rebuttal, no offence. The nature and the doctor do the exact same thing to the fetus. Nature does what it does for one purpose while the doctor for another purpose. To the fetus there's no difference. Either both are murderers or both are right. Unless you consider nature a God.

Womans Life:
Has not been addressed. Are you saying that abortion should be allowed under some circumstances ?

Extra arguments:
1.Abortion is practiced even if its illegal.According to Planned Parenthood, "In 1972 there were 1,000,000 illegal abortions and 5,000 to 10,000 women died from them." When Roe v. Wade passed in 1973 (a year after the above-mentioned statistic), deaths from abortion drastically dropped. This is supported by the National Center for Health Statistics' own statistics.
2.Law doesn't make something right so if abortion is wrong then it still has to be legal because this is a democratic nation hence we have to follow the consensus. However I dont think that abortion is wrong (in some circumstances)
3.The government has no right to enforce an opinion on its people if most or even many people disagree. Even if it was a fact that abortion is murder, the government is not allowed to pass a law which contradicts the consensus or even in some cases the near majority.
Debate Round No. 3
laleona89

Con

1) If the mothers life is in danger then I guess in that case there should be an abortion, yes I'm agreeing with you that under some circumstances there should be an abortion. When there are two lifes in danger and you can only save on then you save the one that is most important. In this case it would be the mother.
2)Okay you have the consensus on your side. I don't care, what if I go out there and murder a child (infanticide) then I don't think the government should intervene because they should leave it to the matters of the individual who is committing murder to a human being not to a person.
When you say a person is the only one that has the right to live, then they should legalize infanticide, because kids don't always know how to communicate, they do not have the capacity to reason. As you see not all children fit within the qualities a person needs, so they are just human beings and not people, so they don't have the right to life either?
3) "Nature does what it does for one purpose while the doctor for another purpose." -Pro
The purpose why nature does it is because it has a reason. For example if someone has a miscarriage then that means that the mothers body wasn't strong enough or capable to protect it and make it a human being; but in case of the surgery abortion, the reasons are that she is too young and her life will be ruined, but she is just not accepting the consequences of her mistake, she won't learn from that. Another of the many reason they have an abortion is because they can't afford a child. There are many families looking for a child, go and look for a good family to adopt them and then, you're free without even having to deal with her and without taking someone's life.
4)"Abortion is practiced even if it's illegal."-Pro
Well, let the government deal with those criminals just the way they do with drug consumers, or murders. I want to know the source of your information from your extra argument #1
5) I believe abortion is wrong when you do it because it convenient for you and it is not endangering your life. You are doing to get rid of a problem, but what you are supposed to do is to face the problem and deal with it the way you're supposed to.

EXTRA ARGUMENTS:
1. Women's suicide rate is highest after abortion. The suicide rate among women who had abortions was six times higher than that of women that had given birth the prior year.
www.afterabortion.org/news/suicide205.html
2. "Now a recent, unimpeachable study of pregnancy-associated deaths in Finland has shown that the risk of dying within a year after an abortion is several times higher than the risk of dying after miscarriage or childbirth." I believe it doesn't matter where you are abortions and child birth are the same thing. http://www.afterabortion.org...
vardas0antras

Pro

All good things come to an end so let me finish this.
1)
"yes I'm agreeing with you that under some circumstances there should be an abortion."
2)
Consensus was not my argument instead it was - one of my arguments against your refutation. " As you see not all children fit within the qualities a person needs" What child has no capacity to reason or has no consciousness ?
3)
"The purpose why nature does it is because it has a reason." and "reasons are that she is too young and her life will be ruined" and " but she is just not accepting the consequences of her mistake" so my opponent secretly concludes that nature is also irresponsible. Two different reasons but the same method.
4)
"criminals just the way they do with drug consumers, or murders."
What will happen then ? The parent is imprisoned and the child starves to death wow great solution instead of one person suffering (now thats assuming abortion is murder) we have two ! Sources were provided and did you honestly think that abortion would stop if it were illegal ?
5)
"but what you are supposed to do is to face the problem and deal with it the way you're supposed to."
Lets forget what was just said and lets assume abortion is murder but is it murder for convenience ? In many cases yes but in many other cases, no. There are many cases and many instances where a child can ruin ones life or even the whole families life. In these cases the child may not reach adulthood, commit suicide or be menace to society until he gets imprisoned. Abortion ought to be permitted under these circumstances.

EXTRA ARGUMENTS:
1 plus 2) No refutations have been made only irrelevant statistics.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Ste93 5 years ago
Ste93
Hmm, this could have been a lot more interesting. I take it con would be against stem cell research. If someone was dying and you could help them, can it be considered murder (or perhaps manslaughter) to not help them? Stem cell research involves the destruction of a few cells (far fewer that the number of cells you kill everytime you scratch your nose, all of which could potentially develop into humans) to save the lives of real people with real suffering. Who feel pain, physically and emotionally. Who have loved ones who care for them. You think we should sacrifice such people (and they are extremely numerous) for the sake of a few cells?
Posted by Tidin 5 years ago
Tidin
I'm debating abortion too! Lol
Posted by laleona89 5 years ago
laleona89
I,m sor in my argument I forgot to post my Source so I will post it here.
http://www.census.gov...
Posted by laleona89 5 years ago
laleona89
this debate is about the legalizlation of abortion. why it shouldn't be legal.
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rogue
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gavin.ogden
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SuperRobotWars
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