The Instigator
ProundDemocrat
Pro (for)
The Contender
Hawkecrail
Con (against)

abortions

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ProundDemocrat has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/25/2017 Category: Health
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 360 times Debate No: 99329
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

ProundDemocrat

Pro

Women should have the choice to get an elective abortion because they should be able to control their own body without government control.
""" I believe that every woman has the right to their own body. According to the constitution a fetus has no rights until it is born. Until the fetus is born it is not considered alive by the US constitution. All the rights a fetus has goes to the mother, because in the constitution the 14th amendment says that something is alive when it is born, until then the fetus is part of the woman's body. So the government should not choose what
""" An unborn baby is not able to survive on its own. The baby would not be able to survive on it"s own so it is not alive yet. It can not survive for a day without being inside of the women so this should still be considered her body and should be viewed as a woman's choice on what to do with there own body.
""" Next the baby can not feel any pain at all until the 23 week meaning an abortion is not inhumane. Many people think that an abortion is inhumane because the baby is being killed and feeling extreme pain but scientist have concluded that a fetus can not feel pain until the 23 week. Although it can feel pain after the 23 week it is still in the mothers body and she should still have control over what she wants to do with it.
Hawkecrail

Con

In the case of this argument, it's less of a political view but more of a moral view, since its politically okay, but the moral side is questionable.
Abortion, is morally wrong since it ends something that at best, could have been a source of joy for those around it, and possibily many other people, and at worst, a nuisance to society, before it could even begin.
1) since the law is made of iron, and thus cannot be changed, I have no stance against your first point, accept that, It technically IS alive. Since as a part of the mother, it uses her air, water and nutrients and is attached to her body. I'm not going to advance this point further for now, since you didn't seem to finish your argument
2) It is fairly common sense that an unborn baby cannot survive on its own, but neither can newborns, very small children, and very old people. Also, Complete freedom with your own body is not neccesarily a fully good thing though, for rarer, more sinister things like selling your own organs or harming yourself, which is a huge problem.
3) According to these articles:
http://www.doctorsonfetalpain.com...
http://www.factcheck.org...;
The latest time on which a baby can feel pain is 20 weeks, not 23, and that is the latest, since pain can start sooner. Doctors performing correctie surgery have also noted to fetuses flinching at the touch of sharp objects, and these procedures would be done earlier into the pregnancy, since later it would be harder to "correct" malformations.
It is also very worth noting that since the function to feel pain is rooted in, but the function to modify the amount of pain you feel is not, to an unborn, a small stimulation might feel 10x worse than what it should.


4) It is worth noting the absolutely brutal way some abortions are carried out. As in " Sharp-edged instruments are used to grasp, twist, and tear the baby’s body into pieces. This continues until the child’s entire body is removed from the womb. U.S. Supreme Court Justice Kennedy describes the procedure saying, “The fetus, in many cases, dies just as a human adult or child would: It bleeds to death as it is torn limb from limb.”"
No matter what your stance on abortion, you can agree, that sounds brutal and most likely feels just as brutal, if not worse, for the unborn

5) Babies may bring a lot of joy. Some people who i have met have had their families brought together with smiles on their faces because of a child. Even accidental and unwanted, they can still bring joy.

6) Should a women be raped, and their rapist did not use a condom or force-feed them birth control, or the women does not have the sense to take a pill afterwards, a child can live out life with its mother's parents, other relatives, with her, or if it comes to it, an orphanage

Those are my arguments for now, I will continue to due a bit of research until your next argument is posted
Debate Round No. 1
ProundDemocrat

Pro

1. Thanks for stopping on the first one I don't know why it got cut off.
2. From a moral standpoint I am not arguing that it is bad to get an abortion I think they are terrible and would never want anyone that I know to have one but I think that is a choice that a woman should be able to make
3. In some cases an abortion may be helping the baby a childhood of struggle, being that the mother may be poor, or she may put it in a shelter, while I think that a shelter is better then an abortion I still do believe that someone that is pretty much abandoned at birth will not have the best life/childhood.
4. Although you said that older people and young children also can not survive on their own they are still living on there own not needing their mother to eat certain things for the kid or older person, nor entirely eat for the person, although a infant needs the mother it can survive more then an hour without the mother around.
5. I will take for an example that I saw on this website, someone wrote that, I am holding a baby and a fetus, you need to choose one of them to drop, the one that you choose will die if it is dropped {the drop symbolizes killing one of them}. you choose the fetus because you know there a difference. Your number 3 left me stumped so I do not have a rebuttal for that particular paragraph/argument.
6. number 4 was a good point that is definitely brutal to me and as I said I would not want to have anyone I know ever do this because as I do believe it is a terrible thing to do it should still be someone's choice to do that and because it is not ruled as homicide until the fetus is born, then although this pains me to say the woman still does have the right to do that.
7. I do agree that a baby may bring joy but a baby may also bring a hard time in someone's life, not being able to get the proper things to raise the child could leave the baby at a bad state or the mother broke and then unable to live her previous life without the baby.
8. I agree that the baby should be given to the family but what if the family does not want a baby or is not in a stable place to raise a new born?
I will also continue to do research, also what do you think of trumps wall, do you agree, if you do then I could create another debate if not I will think of something else. Thanks
Hawkecrail

Con

2) Well, I guess there are a lot of bad things we are allowed to make choices about, like gambling and drinking/drugs.
3) A shelter is definitely better than an abortion, but Being in a shelter can provide an opportunity to keep the child's parents from worrying, and/or give the child a better life than anyone in the immediate family could offer.
4) That's true, but that same argument could apply to people in intensive care or more closely to comatose and hospitalized old people
5) well that fetus would be dead outside the mothers body anyway :p but there is definitely a difference, but in the long one not much since the fetus would eventually develop to be a baby
6) I don;t really have much to say on this one just refer to 2
7) That is true, this point is jut really 50/50
8) Shelters are usually available, or the government can intervene, since its their job to make sure every citizen is safe

Trumps wall isn't really realistic, a fence is more likely if it actually happens. But you can't go at him because every basically every other politician has done this at some point
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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