The Instigator
vitinho-santos
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points
The Contender
mudkip624
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

afterlife is possible

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
vitinho-santos
Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 6/11/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 815 times Debate No: 56453
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (2)

 

vitinho-santos

Pro

Afterlife is a scientific hypothesis. There aren't reliable evidences that mind (the self) is mind
mudkip624

Con

There are no conclusions that support this other than faith, which is unreliable when compared to scientific experimentation.
Debate Round No. 1
vitinho-santos

Pro

The theoretical model of human being isn't finished. Science doesn't have reliable evidences that man is only a flesh body, a biological and natural machine. That"s a scientific hypothesis like much others.

Other possible hypothesis may be that human being is a natural and immortal soul linked to a mortal flesh body. Soul probably isn"t made of substances that have the same properties than trivial materials, but isn"t necessary a supernatural phenomena. what we know about nature isn't all, by the contrary i think there is more to know than that humanity already know.

With that hypothesis we can explain a lot of phenomena that science doesn"t actually can explain.

The scientific position about paranormal phenomenas is the doubt. That doubt only can be resolved with the paranormal phenomena study. I think that nobody can deny that some paranormal phenomena exist. What we can argue is that phenomena aren"t related with the model of immortal soul (where the brain is highly correlated with mind, but isn't the same - if mind survives body death...).

However, to argue that man is only a mortal flesh body, is necessary obtain reliable evidences. Where can we obtain the necessary evidences?
mudkip624

Con

mudkip624 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
vitinho-santos

Pro

I conclude that afterlife is possible because paranormal phenomena is possible and can be better explained with afterlife hypothesis. Brain=mind isn't a good explanation for paranormal. If brain is correlated with mind, but there's no cause-effect relation. Who have means and know-how to scientific research are the scientists. Paranormal exists, ESP exists. Ganzfeld experiment is repet"ble and is a good evidence of paranormal. Scientists like Dean Radin (PhD) and others nowadays studies paranormal. Science doesn't deny afterlife nor paranormal. More than 50% of world population believes paranormal and afterlife.Till human being theorectical model isn't complete, nobody can exclude afterlife. Physicalism is a belief. Is a good explanation for physical phenomena, but not a good explanation for all phenomena.
mudkip624

Con

mudkip624 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Uh-Ha 2 years ago
Uh-Ha
OK....I'll sit and be swayed by your logical proof. no worries.

Anything for a reasonable fellow. The ball is in your court, Sir!
Posted by vitinho-santos 2 years ago
vitinho-santos
Dear Uh-ha

If you didn't say i'm religious, sorry! But your arguments against religion believes aren't valid, in this case. I don't want or need followers. Nor i need/want your agreement.

All paranormal phenomena are evidences that must be researched, in order to obtain scientific explanations. Internet search can lead you to serious scientists that are working on this area. As an example: Dean Radin (Phd). These are reasons to sustain afterlife hypothesis.

But no one has the obligation to prove you absolutely nothing. If you don't want proofs (or better, reliable evidences), because you think that your knowledge permits you to exclude afterlife hypothesis, that"s ok. You can think what you want. If you think that i w'll proof anything to you, please wait seated...

You are a believer to, like religious people. But your beliefs are only different. Your beliefs aren"t more important then the other ones.
Posted by Uh-Ha 2 years ago
Uh-Ha
Im not trying to prove whether you are religious or not.

I am attempting to show you that you are the one that has to prove your assumption that an afterlife exists. Scientific opinion at this point in time makes no such claim to any type of existance other than an earthly one. YOU are arguing to the contrary, so you must prove the existence of the said afterlife.

Got it?

So lets hear it, without further ado. No names, no insults, no stupid questions, just raw proof that when we die, we go to some other existence. I say its cobblers, something invented by religious groups and cults to control people in their day to day lives.

Now, having clarified that YOU must prove this....lets see it, in pixel form, as simply as you can put it in English.
Posted by vitinho-santos 2 years ago
vitinho-santos
Dear UH-HA

Your assumption that i'm religious is wrong. So is you who must proof that assumption.
Posted by Uh-Ha 2 years ago
Uh-Ha
Sir,

I'm not claiming that anything other that what we can prove to be of this earth exists. I'm the one saying that religon and otherworld belief is a load of cobblers.

Therefore, the burden of proof lies with YOU.

Until otherwise proven, which is your responsibility, I am in the corner of this debate tht simply sits back and lets everyone else come up with the goods.

So lets hear it then.....

By the way, you now sound like a believer more so than ever. Only Churchies carry on in this fashion.
Posted by vitinho-santos 2 years ago
vitinho-santos
Dear Uh-Ha

Your answer is supported in personal comments without scientific or logic justification. An example is my other nickname argument, or the wrong hunch about my religion. So i can"t find a based arguments in your post.
Posted by Uh-Ha 2 years ago
Uh-Ha
with a name like vitinho-santos, he/she has got to be a 'believer', most likely a catholic, and therefore, we have to make allowances for the significant intellectual drag factor that this imposes on Santos logic.

If an afterlife was possible or even desirable and we could prove it, millions of people would find a way to join it very quickly to escape whatever was bthering them in this life. Of the trillions of people who have died on this planet, not a single one of them has ever demonstrated the existence of an afterlife beyond reasonable doubt.

The Church uses such childrens fairy stories to help justify their position and the position of the rich and influential. If you believe that a life you lead when you die will be exptentially better than the suboid existence you lead now, this keeps you in check and working, prevents you from rising up to overthrow those that perpetrate this crap, and keeps you "poor and happy", whilst the powerful continue to screw you for their own gain.

Wake up Santos. When we die we just.....DIE. We become maggot food or ash. There is no afterlife or heaven and hell, its just a story by the rich and powerful to keep you working for them, a holdover from the medieval period.
Posted by vitinho-santos 2 years ago
vitinho-santos
Of course Dear Burncastle. Science is made of reliable evidences.

But some people argue that science have reliable evidences about physicalist explanation of human being (mind=brain). That's another kind of faith, not science
Posted by Burncastle 2 years ago
Burncastle
Probability is a subset of possibility.
Posted by Osiris_Rosenthorne 2 years ago
Osiris_Rosenthorne
Just out of curiosity, can anybody name a law of physics that says there isn't? There is after all, a difference between possibility and probability.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Kc1999 2 years ago
Kc1999
vitinho-santosmudkip624
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: FF. Self explanatory
Vote Placed by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
vitinho-santosmudkip624
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: FF