The Instigator
santanisgreat
Pro (for)
Losing
34 Points
The Contender
mongeese
Con (against)
Winning
39 Points

all belief systems are just false hope, and stories used to convey a good moral (more in argument)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/9/2009 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,327 times Debate No: 9175
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (19)
Votes (11)

 

santanisgreat

Pro

Today i hope to rock the foundation of your very lives!

I am here to strongly affirm the point the all belief systems are just false hope, and stories used to convey a good moral agenda in an improper unmoral way

contention 1
there are many religions that use "gods" overall power in fairy tales to conivnce you to belive anything they tell you.

think about it really. if you lived a couple thousand years ago, and wrote some nonsense in a book, about a jealous, hateful, super being that promised and could deny you the greatest thing in the world, that being "heavan". and this was passed down through the ages, many people would completly belive it. and this proves that anyone could write a "bible" to convey his own agenda.

this is because the fear within all humans, of not knowing. and even though it promotes healthy stable ideas, it uses fairy tales promote them in a very propaganda-esque way. telling those who dont not follow will not get to "heaven"
creates fear in those who don not understand the very uknown of the universe.

--subpoint A
And doing it to children, the "weakest" most scared of all beings is immoral and wrong to force any ideal you embrace without explantion of any alternative idea, is wrong in a context.

--contention 2
it really does bring upon false hope.

imagine every day you wake up thinking an all powerful monster (god) was looking out for you. making sure you are okay and such, making people dependent on a myth. wasting hours in church thinking it brings them closer to this goblin (god).
and when someone dies you think that you will be reunited with them, or in other cultures they are your cow!
and the biggest reason this all happens is because you have been given false hope, and told to belive what your TOLD. and you and your "group" forcing or being forced to belive what you told, in a very aggresive way (without even knowing it) causes false hope
example: a group of people and i tell a guy that if he doesnt yell ham every 36 hours, a mighty beast would banish him to the north pole when he died, and that if he did, he would get a to live be in florida and would be peaceful. and he belived me, thats very wrong. i gave him false hope. which is wrong

--contention 3
even though they promote goodness, blinding people mentally, they could have found other ways to get people to belive these good morals.

propaganda is moraly wrong.
people could have just raised there familys, in a very moral way with elborate and intricate ways of forcing fake stories and crazy propaganda down there thoats.
if you must scare your family, and force them to do stuff you are not in a healthy relationship with them (unless there doing meth and stuff do dont try to amke a point that sometimes it is very benifcial to force people to do stuff, unless in the context of this topic)
mongeese

Con

Thank you for instigating this debate.

Contention 1:
My opponent claims that because each belief system uses a different set of gods (even though all of the Abrahamic religions use the same God), they all must be false. This is false. If twenty different people tell me twenty different things, one of them might be right.

Subpoint A:
Does that mean that we should teach children that it might be okay to shoot your neighbor without reason? Didn't think so. Teaching another your morals should not require impartiality.

Contention 2:
This point relies on every single belief system being false. To actually have this point, my opponent must disprove every single belief system on this Earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

That's right. Every single one of the belief systems listed there have to be disproven. It has some of the obvious ones, like Christianity and Judaism, but it branches out into all sorts of nooks and crannies, such as capitalism, Beardism, environmental racism, atheism, and liberitarianism. With all of these belief systems, it is practically impossible for all of them to be wrong, because they all completely cover any political or moral compass.

Contention 3:
Just because some types of propaganda would be considered morally wrong, doesn't mean that all attempts to convince anybody must be immoral. My opponent's going to have to come up with a pretty flawless syllogism to prove this point.
He then argues that scaring your family and forcing them to do stuff is bad, but he then says that it is okay in any context except this context. Unless he gives a reason for this distinction, this point should be considered invalid.

In conclusion, all belief systems can't all be false, because they cover all the bases for every single conflict known to man.
Debate Round No. 1
santanisgreat

Pro

thanks bro for taking this nonsense case

My oppenent misterpreted my first contention
I meant that because they use "God's" power to gain control of a persons freewill
or scaring them to do what anyone wants them to

subpoint A
it is wrong to force your child belief system to be your belief system, without explanation of not beliving in anything.

contention2
i belive my that all belief systems are false
i can prove this by asking a simple question,
if any one belief system is right why do we all not follow it.
and and to say that it is almost impossibly wrong, means nothing
(and its not because "god" gave us free will)
this means you would have to prove at least ONE BELIEF SYSTEM TO BE RIGHT!

contention3
i meant the right context to be if the person is causing true harn to themselves or otheres there needs to be a forced intervention.
but what people belive hurts no one, so it is immoral to force people to belive what you want them to.

the overall point of this is to prove that this is at least one belief system that could be true, without a doubt.
and even at that if it is true, that it does not promote good through evil ways!
mongeese

Con

Contention 1:
My opponent claims that people can control another's free will, which is impossible.

Subpoint A:
1. Where is the force?
2. "Without explanation of not beliving in anything"? Could you please explain this?

Contention 2:
My opponent is now shifting the burden of proof onto me. He has to prove that they are all false. I don't have to prove any of them to be true.
Anyways, one belief system, Agnosticism, cannot be false. It is the belief that there may be a higher being. So, the resolution is impossible to affirm, and therefore, negated.
"if any one belief system is right why do we all not follow it."
Because we don't know which one is right, apparently.

Contention 3:
Again, where is this "force" that you speak of?

My opponent again makes an attempt at shifting the burden, and says:
"and even at that if it is true, that it does not promote good through evil ways!"
Since when does capitalism promote good through evil ways? Or Agnosticism? Or Christianity? Or Beardism?

In conclusion, my opponent has failed to meet his impossible burden of proof. Vote CON.
Debate Round No. 2
santanisgreat

Pro

haha i sitll dont know why you we wasted the time here

contention 1 they are being "forced" by being scared into what to belive!

subpoint- i meant to also introduce the idea that mindlessly following others is wrong also (even though technically pretty much thinking anyhting should be wrong acording to me and, that everything is wrong)
but ther flaws of any belief system is enough to make it unmoral!

because i truly dont care, and have posted an un-winable case, that makes little sense and tastes like beef,

i concide! haha?

just remember to worship satan! hahahaha

so how 'bout you vote in affirmation!
or maybe not haha i can always make a new account.

myspace.com/nicenightforanevening
myspace.com/beastlyjizz
myspace.com/thedutchmanstreasure
mongeese

Con

"contention 1 they are being 'forced' by being scared into what to belive!"
That's still not being "forced."

"mindlessly following others is wrong"
Who said anything about anybody doing anything mindlessly?

"but ther flaws of any belief system is enough to make it unmoral!"
My opponent assumes that all things flawed are immoral. He does not support this statement at all.

And at this point, my opponent snaps, and concedes. Well, thanks for still being here to read this, and vote CON.
Debate Round No. 3
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Rezzealaux 7 years ago
Rezzealaux
lol mongeese, that's exactly the same position I took against JBlake.
http://www.Debate.org...
Posted by santanisgreat 7 years ago
santanisgreat
haha if "god" were real he would have blessed me himself!

not you some random kid,

and "if" was real he/she would be using you to do his/her work like a slave!
with his evil ability to decide were you go when you die

the evil/spiteful/hatefilled clouds of "god"

or the awesome forgiving land of satan!!!!
Posted by KeepTheChange 7 years ago
KeepTheChange
God bless you.
Posted by brittwaller 7 years ago
brittwaller
So I take it you're not big on religion?
Posted by santanisgreat 7 years ago
santanisgreat
you are the worst kind of racist!

saying the only way to the "father" is though jesus,
what about those who belive in muhhamad and such
thats just cruel to the other disabled people in the world,
saying because you belive your religion and belief are best ( and tat "god" touches your heart) that every other religion is wrong thats just one track minded meaness

i hate all religions, athesim, agnoticism, sciecetologey everthing equally there all just as dumb as the last,
and just becuase your family brainwashed you as a child does not mean you have to follow all there ideas, and act all high and mighty about your religion, no one cares.

i argue religion to help make people question this fictional character ("god").
i can feel in my heart hes not real, ican fell in my heart theres no satan,i can feel in my heart that half the world is being controlled by something that has yet to be proven real!!
Posted by santanisgreat 7 years ago
santanisgreat
gods telling me to let you all know

that the bible is the best fiction novel he has written
second only to the koran

i can fell him i am so religous now i am so scared of the rapture
thank you for letting me know
so i could have this amazing talk with god

haha just kidding

i truly dont care if you belive in a higher power, or whatever
i just think is funny thats all
its cool i guess, it keeps you from beating children and raping dogs (hopefully)
but if you have to be scared of raptures and stuff than, i think its funny!
Posted by brittwaller 7 years ago
brittwaller
@ the Instigator: Read the Cookbook, you are in desperate need.

@ the person below me: You're 14, so you might not be called so many names as you thought (at least not by me.) I think it's ok for a 14-year-old to believe in fairy tales; that and the tone of your comment struck me in a nice way. If by "the word of god" you mean the Bible, then claiming that it has survived scrutiny and not been disproven (as being somewhat correct, to say nothing of actually being the word of god) for thousands of years is stretching it a little, don't you think? However, it was your comment that "And yes, I CAN feel the peace of God guarding my heart. It surpasses all understanding, and until you have felt it, you have no idea what I'm talking about," that really made me want to reply to you.
If [x] *feeling* surpasses all understanding, as you claim, then isn't it YOU that has no idea what YOU'RE talking about? Food for thought...

By the way, you do not have to pray for me. In fact, I explicitly ask that you don't. Even IF your belief were anywhere near (not true but) possible, I would not want a part. So remember this comment, and let your balls drop before you dedicate your life to abstaining from their use;P
Posted by KeepTheChange 7 years ago
KeepTheChange
I know that as soon as this comment is posted there will be those who call me "disabled", or "handicapped" for believing what I do. Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved." I don't trust in a dumb book. I trust in The Word of God which has survived scrutiny and not been disproved for thousands of years. And yes, I CAN feel the peace of God guarding my heart. It surpasses all understanding, and until you have felt it, you have no idea what I'm talking about. It's not some religious mumbo jumbo. And I was not tricked into this. By my freewill I chose to believe in it. I believe that Jesus died and rose again and that He is the ONLY way to the Father.
I'm going to be called so many names for this, but when millions of people disappear from around the globe in the rapture, know that it was predicted in The Bible. I hope and hurriedly pray that you will be part of it. But if you aren't, remember this comment, and give your life to The King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ.
Posted by GeoLaureate8 7 years ago
GeoLaureate8
"Teaching another your morals should not require impartiality." - mongeese

There's a difference between morals and religion. Telling your child not to steal, or to be respectful is ok. But indoctrinating your child to believe in a certain religion, to both fear and love a god, and to fear hell, is wrong. This is putting serious, unnecessary psychological strain on a child, and implanting fallacies into his brain at a young age. The proper way to go about such a thing, would be to educate (not indoctrinate) the child on various religions so that the child may think for himself and make his own decisions.

.
Posted by Freeman 7 years ago
Freeman
It would be nice if people made a habit of putting their essays through a word processor before starting a debate.
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