The Instigator
linkish
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
rougeagent21
Con (against)
Winning
32 Points

america should have free health care

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/9/2009 Category: Health
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,233 times Debate No: 7759
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (25)
Votes (6)

 

linkish

Pro

well I believe that the usa should have free health care because we would totally get a lower death rate, we also have a little bit more money to spend, and we wouldn't lose are friends or in an adult case kids as much.http://www.freemarketcure.com...
rougeagent21

Con

Let's start out by not quibbling with socialists' false claim health-care service is a human right regardless of ability to pay and that it should be free.

Before we buy into this socialist agenda, we might check out just what happens when health-care services are "free." Let's look at our neighbor to the north -- Canada.

The Fraser Institute, a Vancouver, B.C.-based think tank, has done yeoman work keeping track of Canada's socialized health-care system. It has just come out with its 13th annual waiting-list survey. It shows the average time a patient waited between referral from a general practitioner to treatment rose from 16.5 weeks in 2001-02 to 17.7 weeks in 2003. Saskatchewan had the longest average waiting time of nearly 30 weeks, while Ontario had the shortest, 14 weeks.

Walter E. Williams, the John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics at George Mason University, is an adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute.

Waiting lists also exist for diagnostic procedures such as computer tomography (CT), magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) and ultrasound. Depending on province and diagnostic procedure, the wait can range from two to 24 weeks.

As reported in a December 2003 article by Kerri Houston for the Frontiers of Freedom Institute titled "Access denied: Canada's health-care system turns patients into victims", in some cases, patients die on the waiting list because they become too sick to tolerate a procedure. Miss Houston says hip-replacement patients often end up non-ambulatory while waiting an average of 20 weeks, and that's after waiting 13 weeks just to see the specialist. The wait to get diagnostic scans followed by the wait for the radiologist to read them just might explain why Cleveland, Ohio, became Canada's hip-replacement center.

Adding to Canada's medical problems is the exodus of doctors. According to a March 2003 story in Canada News, about 10,000 doctors left Canada in the 1990s. Compounding that exodus is the drop in medical school graduates. According to Miss Houston, Ontario has turned to nurses to replace its bolting doctors. It is "creating" 369 new nurse practitioner positions to take up the doctor shortage.

Some patients avoided long waits for medical services by paying for private treatment. In 2003, British Columbia enacted Bill 82, an "Amendment to Strengthen Legislation and Protect Patients." On its face, Bill 82 is to "protect patients from inadvertent billing errors." That's on its face. But according to a January 2004 article by Nadeem Esmail for the Fraser Institute's Forum and titled "Oh to be a prisoner," Bill 82 would disallow anyone from paying the clinical fees for private surgery, where previously only patients were forbidden to do so. The bill also empowers the government to levy fines of up to $20,000 on physicians who accept these fees or allow such a practice. That means it is now against Canadian law to opt out of the health-care system and pay for your own surgery.

When price isn't allowed to make demand equal supply, other measures must be taken. One way to distribute the demand is by queuing -- making people wait. Another is to have a medical czar who decides who is eligible, under what conditions, for a particular procedure -- for example, no hip replacement or renal dialysis for people over 70 or no heart transplants for smokers.

I'm wondering just how many Americans would like Canada's long waiting lists, medical czars deciding what treatments we get and an exodus of doctors.

Here are a few more points for you to think on.

-"Free" health care isn't really free since we must pay for it with taxes; expenses for health care would have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, etc.

-Profit motives, competition, and individual ingenuity have always led to greater cost control and effectiveness.

-Government-controlled health care would lead to a decrease in patient flexibility.

-Patients aren't likely to curb their drug costs and doctor visits if health care is free; thus, total costs will be several times what they are now.

-Just because Americans are uninsured doesn't mean they can't receive health care; nonprofits and government-run hospitals provide services to those who don't have insurance, and it is illegal to refuse emergency medical service because of a lack of insurance.

-Government-mandated procedures will likely reduce doctor flexibility and lead to poor patient care.

Sources:

www.cato.org
www.balancedpolotics.org
www.capmag.com
www.findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov
Debate Round No. 1
linkish

Pro

Ok I thank you for providing such great info in your rebuttal.

Alright I'm going to address the Canadian hospitality first. Well In my own words I say that what if this long patent waiting does not have anything to do about health care, I myself would blame this problem on there environment, as says http://www.nowpublic.com... So many people get sick because of there filthy environment.

Secondly why people would have to wait so long is their lack of hospitals, for an ex look at France no problems there are hospitals all over in France, http://www.francehospital.com... says that "French hospitals are easily accessible."

Now on to the cons of having free health care. First we would save a lot of money, and going back to the Canadian health, with out free health care we are just like them, only we don't wait we have to pay because a company would not pay it for them, now they don't have money they lose there job, and their house, then soon after their life.

Living with free health care would help us, http://abcnews.go.com... , this site tells you that people have lost jobs, just because they wouldn't pay for someone's health, those people die, the worker then blames their selfs, so not only does non free health care kill others, it also places some in a maniac depression.

That is my rebuttal thank you for reading what I had to say.
rougeagent21

Con

rougeagent21 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
linkish

Pro

linkish forfeited this round.
rougeagent21

Con

OK, lets get started.

First off, I cannot see your first link, maybe it is broken? Secondly, the environment has nothing to do to it. People will get sick. What do we want to give them when they do?

OK, so the French have a lot of hospitals. And this would work in America because...

You are saying that we would save money by not having to pay for healthcare. How are you getting at that? Where do you propose the money comes from? Taxes? Nope, then it wouldn't be free.

I do not understand your next point. Maybe you could split it up more clearly in your next post?

You did not attack the rest of my arguments. If you would, please do this also in your next post. I would like to leave the voters with one final thought:

Free healthcare is impossible to achieve. Who pays for it? If not the people using it, then who will? Someone needs to pay, else it would not exist. A practice as expensive as being a doctor cannot be had when it is not funded. Since it needs to be funded, it cannot and will not ever be free.
Debate Round No. 3
linkish

Pro

OK sorry about the delay I kinda moved, well on this topic I would like to tell you all that I really am haveing a hard tim.
to answer the thought who would pay, well the goverment which would mean taxes... so the people would pay. sorry but that all I got right now.
rougeagent21

Con

"to answer the thought who would pay, well the goverment which would mean taxes... so the people would pay. "

Exactly. Pay. What does that word imply? That something isn't free. The resolution is negated.
Debate Round No. 4
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 7 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"You can pay for the taxes with the money you saved by not having to pay for Healthcare, while making the taxes highter for the rich.
"
No, you can't. Efficiency costs. Paying for your own health care is subject to economic calculation-- taxation is not
Posted by rougeagent21 7 years ago
rougeagent21
Its all good, next time eh?
Posted by linkish 7 years ago
linkish
wow I really bombed this one.
Posted by linkish 7 years ago
linkish
thanks.
Posted by rougeagent21 7 years ago
rougeagent21
I bet. Good luck next time.
Posted by linkish 7 years ago
linkish
well never mind next time I will have a lot more info.
Posted by linkish 7 years ago
linkish
its all right we still have a couple rebuttals left no worries.
Posted by rougeagent21 7 years ago
rougeagent21
Well if you ever feel like debating this again when you have time, feel free to ask me :) I know life happens and you just have to roll with the punches.
Posted by linkish 7 years ago
linkish
dont worry I moved so I totally missed it and about the first link I canot see it anymore ether
Posted by rougeagent21 7 years ago
rougeagent21
Dang it, sorry about the forfeit. I'll make sure to post next round. My bad :(
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
linkishrougeagent21Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: pro simply could not respond
Vote Placed by TFranklin62 7 years ago
TFranklin62
linkishrougeagent21Tied
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Vote Placed by crackofdawn_Jr 7 years ago
crackofdawn_Jr
linkishrougeagent21Tied
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Vote Placed by Riley09 7 years ago
Riley09
linkishrougeagent21Tied
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Vote Placed by Lazy 7 years ago
Lazy
linkishrougeagent21Tied
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Vote Placed by rougeagent21 7 years ago
rougeagent21
linkishrougeagent21Tied
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