The Instigator
xxx200
Pro (for)
Winning
13 Points
The Contender
AdamRLCaulfield
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points

are muslims a threat to the civilised world?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
xxx200
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/22/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,873 times Debate No: 20565
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (5)

 

xxx200

Pro

i will show that muslims are a threat to the civilised world. con will show that muslims are not a threat to the civilised world.

first round acceptence, round 2 and 3 arguements, round 4 rebuttals, round conclusion.
AdamRLCaulfield

Con

Muslims are not a threat to the civilized world. I believe this statement as truth and fact based upon two main reasons. The first reason being that most views towards Muslims and their faith are misconceptions. Misconceptions of course being views or opinions that are incorrect because they are based on faulty thinking or understanding. I don't meant to patronize by adding a definition there, I just felt the need to clarify. The second reason for my belief is that the statement of

"Muslims are a threat to the civilised world."

Is a prime example of generalizing a entire community which my friend, is wrong. I would like to start with the first reason though. I will give this section a sub heading if I may of 'Misconceptions.'

Misconceptions.

Many will argue that people who follow the Islamic faith (Muslims) are a threat to the civilized world because they act violently towards all other religions and (to quote a commonly used term) 'spread Islam by the sword." This is the first misconception. Throughout the Qur'an, Muslims are reminded that they are not the only ones who worship God. Jews and Christians are called "People of the Book," meaning people who have received previous revelations from the One Almighty God that we all worship. The Qur'an also commands Muslims to protect from harm not only mosques, but also monasteries, synagogues, and churches -- because "God is worshipped therein." Muslims are aware that their are other faiths and that people have a right to believe what they wish however they also believe that they have the right to try to convert just the same as Christians and Jews. The idea that they act violently is based upon post 9/11 propaganda and generalization but I'll get to that later.

Another misconception is that the Qur'an teaches that women are inferior and are made to be slaves. This is incorrect. The Qur'an states that men and women were made equal in god's (Allah's) eyes and in the after life. Neither were created to be subservient to the other. The Qur'an was written at a time of patriarchal society and as such certain parts were adapted to fit the views at the time and these views were carried on by traditionalists to what they are today but this does not apply to all Muslims hence generalization. In fact Muhammad by, instituting rights of property ownership, inheritance, education and divorce, gave women certain basic rights. To believe that all Muslims still follow this view is a case of generalization.

It's about time I got to that horrible thing called generalization.

Generalization (in layman's terms) is the process of using the view of a minority to judge the majority. It's fueled by ignorance and propaganda. Now here's the thing. I want you all, everyone reading this, to think about how many times you hear/see a story about street crime and gang murders on the news. Done that? Now think about how many times you hear about people safely walking to their destination without harm on the news. Never? That's because the media loves a negative story because scare sells. The more we fear, the easier it is to gain our trust. People give us a fear and then a reassurance and then we trust them. This isn't a conspiracy theory, it's basic psychology and it's not something you can really change but it's something you need to be aware of because if you aren't, you could end up hating an entire race or community because we're too scared to go searching for the truth but what does this have to do with Muslims?

People of the Islamic faith are judged mostly by the actions of a group of extremists who attacked the twin towers on 9/11. This event shocked the world and changed the way we think forever but that does not give us the right to irrationally fear all Muslims. We should fear the extremists. I will grant you that but not all Muslims.

Now I know what you're thinking. You're thinking 'wait, don't Muslims believe in oppression and submissive relationships.'

That's not strictly true. You see I've spent time speaking with Muslim people and researching this and from what I've learnt the basis of such patriarchal life styles were mainly taken from views at the time of writing, misunderstanding of messages and traditional/cultural views that were passed on. Yes, Muslims who believe in female oppression do exist and yes they preach such idiocy but not all do. You can't base the view of the majority by looking at the minority. I am not going to claim that they are perfect because they aren't. They still believe in some things which are strange and confusing but they are no worse than any other religion. Will they be the fall of the civilized world? No. They may be imperfect, they may have some backwards views but don't we all? Do Jewish people not perform unnecessary operations on the genitalia of children? (If you don't believe me on that point well this is what the American Academy of Pediatricians have to say on circumcision: "The benefits are not sufficient to recommend that infant boys be circumcised") but I digress. Do Christians not claim moral superiority even though they in the past have been the cause of countless atrocities?

The real threat to the civilized world is poor education. We all need to be educated on the changes that must be made to allow us all to live in harmony. Thank you.

Here's one example of my sources:
http://islam.about.com...

The rest came from friends who follow the Muslim faith.
Debate Round No. 1
xxx200

Pro

1] misconception

have you read the arabic to english translation of koran, hadish and sharia? do you know in all of those 3 texts, there is two things common i.e jihad is the duty of muslims and women are inferior.

i think con has read some commentaries on koran, hadish etc.

lets see what some of mullas are saying on this 2 topics: jihad and women:













2] generalization

the majority of a particuler group is called general public of that group. when majority of muslim are taking extremist steps, we can say all muslims are extremist. you better watch these documentaries where millions of muslims are taking extremist doses from mullahs:

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com...

after watching all these documentary, it is obvious that muslims are extremist.

3] islam is submission and oppression

this video will further clear your doubt:




well.. but there are many muslim clerics who says islam is a religion of peace....

well how do you judge the truthfullness of a theory? of course with the effect which the theory produces in reality. wheather the theory has the same effect in reality as it preaches would be the test to know if the theory is correct.
well in these documentaries, videos mentioned above, can you see that islam is a peaceful thing ? news medias, 9/11 and many other news stories that are available on muslim, did you see any love of a muslim for non muslim?

the answer is no.

so the theory is not right.

muslims are indeed a threat to the civilised world.
AdamRLCaulfield

Con

Whilst I agree they are flawed, my argument is that they are no more a threat than any other flawed idealistic group.
Debate Round No. 2
xxx200

Pro

can you name any idealistic group who are more flawed than muslim.

"killing innocent people will lead them to heaven" this is what they believe, what inspire them to kill.

and the worst part is in most cases the terrorists are home-grown. this means they used the resource of the country and then kill the country.

this is what muslims are.

i don't know if you agree or not.

these muslims need to be wiped out soon.
AdamRLCaulfield

Con

Yes I can name groups that are just as flawed.

Christianity for example. Christianity follows traditional views and ideals that have little to no place in the modern world of common sense and logic. Such views seem harmless and in reality they are however the minute a group of people believe they have found the truth of all life an existence, they get arrogant. When they get arrogant, they start venturing into issues that they don't belong in like gay rights, like abortion etc etc. The powerful people of these groups sacrifice human freedoms for conformist ideals and it's not the fault of the followers (in most cases. Most Christians are actually nice people. I'm talking about the annoying, self righteous one) Such thinking flawed and can lead to hate and war.

The Jewish faith.
Circumcision, I believe I spoke about this before. If you cut off part of a child's genitalia because an invisible man told you. You'd be locked up however if you say that it was god and your rabbi that told you to, Well that's ok. No, It's not. there is no reason for the procedure and it is pointless mutilation on infants.

The BNP
They're trying to incite hatred throughout the people of England towards people of different skin colour. It's 2012 people, can we please just accept that people with different skin colour are still people?

These are all groups that are flawed and need to change if we want a loving, peaceful world and I'm sorry if I've offended anyone with what I've said but if you're going to criticize, you have to take criticism. I look forward to your rebuttal.
Debate Round No. 3
xxx200

Pro

look
christianity, judaism are not just eligible to be compared with islam. why?

because there are the following differences:


Point

Islam

Christianity

Judaism

Jihad: killing of people of other faith

Yes

No

No

Punishment for apostasy

Death

No

No

Wife beating

Yes

No

No

Ban on science/philosophy

Yes

No

No

Cutting physical part of body

Yes

No

No

hate teachings

Yes

No

No

Celibacy

No

Yes

yes

so you see that these 3 religions cannot be compared with each other. they are so different.

now only bnp left. it is a nationalist party. i think there is a need of this kind of party in a country where multiculturalism is overwhelming.

this type of group will protect the interest of white people who are becoming minority in europe and america.in the near future whites will no longer be seen in plenty. so i think party like BNP has a role to play.

AdamRLCaulfield

Con

so, you're saying the bnp are ok?
Debate Round No. 4
xxx200

Pro

BNP stands for these reasons:

- We will put British people first in their own country,



- We demand British jobs go to British workers,


- We say NO to an EU superstate, and YES to keeping Britain free,


- We will stop paying foreign aid and give that money to pensioners,



- and we will bring British troops home from Afghanistan.

i think all these points are the cause of suffering of british people. if BNP works for these causes then i think there is no reason why we should not support BNP.

check out them:

http://www.bnp.org.uk...

at leastBNP is far better than muslims. here is why BNP is needed: the real cause:

the white britishers will be a minority in future because the birth rate differences between white britishers and muslims. here is the proof:



carefully watch and UNDERSTAND the video.

BNP is required to fight for white britishers cause.

thats why i support BNP.

AdamRLCaulfield

Con

I watched the video and let me tell you this.

I will never support the BNP because I will never put one race or class above another for any reason.

Britain should be about HUMANITY. Not one race because we are all human, we all have blood in our veins and skin over our bones and muscles. We are HUMAN, all HUMANS should be allowed to live, work and be safe in all countries and communities.

Also jobs should go to whichever man or women has the better qualifications and skills, regardless of colour or creed. This basic ideal is why laws were created specifically to stop companies from discriminating between race when deciding which employee to hire.

I will grant you that pensioners deserve help and fairness but there are people all over the world that need our help and we won't help them because they're from a different culture? Different race? I thought humans had humanity and ethics and compassion towards each other.

I do agree that we need to pull our troops from Afghanistan but I wonder how they'd feel knowing that the pain and danger they go through is being used as nothing more than part of a marketing campaign for a racist group of pseudo-humans.

The points you raised are not the reason for British people suffering. British people 'suffer' very little compared to the rest of the world but most of our 'suffering' is because of poor economical choices by the people and government.

"the white Britishers will be a minority in future because the birth rate differences between white britishers and muslims"

So you claim that the BNP should be allowed to come to power because Muslims have a higher birth rate? That's not a political issue, it's a biological one. The BNP have no say in where humans can live or work because humans are people, not animals. We have freedom and free will. I won't be able to change your mind but you have to understand that we white British people don't need defending. Most of us actually welcome our multicultural brethren and it's the racist, close minded, foolish people who give us a bad name through out the world. We have no cause. We need no defending because there's nothing to be defended against, there is no scary foreign menace. There is only ignorance to compassion.

Are Muslims perfect? No, they're flawed in many senses and they need to adapt and reevaluate their views but no one is perfect. No one. Are they a threat to the world? Aren't we all?
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by The_Fool_on_the_hill 5 years ago
The_Fool_on_the_hill
they mean the religion not people...
Posted by bhatti1020 5 years ago
bhatti1020
Really? A person who says that muslims should be wiped out is winning? Someone care to wipe me out then?
Posted by bhatti1020 5 years ago
bhatti1020
From a muslim. thank you Adam. Thanks for actually asking muslim what they believe, it's so much easier just to hate blindly, which is what your opponent is doing. "These Muslims need to be wiped out soon"? wtf? the only thing that needs to be wiped out is ignorance, and Pro has an abundance of it.
Posted by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
con had some really sh*tty arguments....
Posted by baggins 5 years ago
baggins
Muslims are the civilized world.
Posted by AdamRLCaulfield 5 years ago
AdamRLCaulfield
Would this argument be based upon the actual faith and doctrines or the people who follow them?
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Neonix 5 years ago
Neonix
xxx200AdamRLCaulfieldTied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro argued with ferocious zeal. I feel convinced by his debate, that he believes and researched his stance. I also feel he researched biased sources. I do not believe there is enough evidence to outright call Islam a threat to the civilized world. The burden of proof for this is on Pro. What was presented as evidence appears more like an effort to demonize. I cannot in good conscience accept a biased, unbalanced source as evidence. Good job to both sides.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
xxx200AdamRLCaulfieldTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's opening round argument was correct, Pro made an improper generalization. After a good opening, Con argued poorly. The correct route was to present examples of non-threatening Muslim populations to show that threat n not inherent. Examples include Turkey, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, and the small Arab sheikdoms. Still, Pro made an extraordinary claim without extraordinary proof. Pro did not capitalize, an annoying error losing S
Vote Placed by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
xxx200AdamRLCaulfieldTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Man sadly Pro wins arguments for this one simply because he actually attempted to make them....Con basically gave up...all he had to do was show that Jihad=/=killing (which it doesn't) and Con failed to do so.
Vote Placed by airmax1227 5 years ago
airmax1227
xxx200AdamRLCaulfieldTied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Decent arguments made by both.. s/g to con.. arguments to Pro as con seems to agree with the resolution by the end, simply iterating that everyone is a threat.
Vote Placed by Hardcore.Pwnography 5 years ago
Hardcore.Pwnography
xxx200AdamRLCaulfieldTied
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Total points awarded:41 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro does not know to capitalize his sentences = S/G to CON. Resolution changed halfway through the debate by CON = conduct to PRO. CON contradicts himself several times and agrees with Pro.