The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Sarra
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

atheism is a theism, belief to the contrary

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/18/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 487 times Debate No: 78792
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (16)
Votes (0)

 

vi_spex

Pro

christians are atheists to thor and odin, becasue they believe their god is true ergo Thor and odin can not have created everything, so you will hear arguments for the bible if a christian met a Nordic god believer

christians are atheists by default to any belief based counter position
Sarra

Con

I will be using oxforddictionary.com , citationmachine.net , and Latin
Definitions according to oxforddictionary.com:
Theism: Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.
Belief: Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction:

I accept that I will be arguing both:
1) Atheism is not about belief.
2) Christians are in no way atheists.
Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

atheism is disbelief, and in order for some one to accept christianity, they must deny all other god claims that contradict, natural atheism, and even to the extent that this is the atheis position, the atheist position can not exist in any other way, and disbelief is based on a belief, and belief is theism

god=Information

i am not a unicorn but you can believe in me
Sarra

Con

Natural Atheism: the natural god-free condition of humans is the correct and a good condition. (1)

1)Atheism is not belief nor disbelief. Atheism does not rely on the opinions or lack of opinions of others. Atheism does not rely on convictions. Atheism is an absence of belief.

2)While Pro is correct with regards to followers of Christianity having to denounce other God claims that contradict the God claims that are made by Christianity; someone who believes in a god (God) cannot at the same time not believe in the same god (God). Natural Atheism mandates that someone who adheres to their principles not believe in any god. Christians cannot be Natural Atheists.

(1)
Home (Natural Atheism)
http://www.naturalatheism.webs.com...
Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

im just using the word natural to clarify, religion is not natural

the problem is you havnt adressed anything i say.. so now i am con on your stuff

you have asserted atheism is not a belief, this Means nothing, becasue the moon is made of cheese

if i believe that gods are false what is my position?
Sarra

Con

Sorry, I am new to this site.

Atheists accept the world how it is. They rely on facts and tangible, material things to assess the world around them. They realize that every action is the causality of other actions. There is no set code to atheism. Every atheist is allowed to think about atheism in the manner in which they wish. Atheism does not have a god claim. Atheism does not have a set doctrine or behavior pattern. Atheism does not have a "something after death" story. Atheists do not gather in buildings at set intervals to discuss their lack of belief. Atheists do not have a set hierarchy with which to donate to promote their cause of atheism around the world. Atheism contains very few or no similarities with the multitude of theisms in the world.

One theism in specific is Christianity. Christianity currently has 90 sects. Sorry if I misrepresent your specific sect (someone reading this debate). Christianity believes in the trinity (the Holy Ghost, Jesus, and God). Christians believe that they are the one true path to God and Heaven. Christians worship their deity at regularly preset intervals within buildings. Most Christians have a set routine for their weekly service. Christians have a hierarchy (different Christians have different hierarchies) with which to allocate funds for the purpose of spreading their faith across the world. These hierarchies also serve as guides for followers to ask questions when they become lost and provide services for ceremonies. Christians believe in souls and that when they die they will be reunited with God in paradise.

Another theism is Hittite. They believe in Dyeus Phter aka Thor. They believe in multiple Gods, each deity doing its own thing. While I am not aware of the specifics of this (mostly) dead religion, there should be cultural myths and afterlife in their faith.

Theism and atheism are polar opposites. Theism has belief while atheism does not. The manner in which each group conducts business within their group is radically different. The desires of their respective groups are different. The manner in which they advocate their group to others is completely different. They are not the same. Christians are not atheists. Atheists are not theists.

Is this better?
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

christianity is atheism, because i have to deny other god claims to be a christian which makes me an atheist in regard to those god claims

you didnt answer my question

if i believe that gods are false what is my position? because i can believe gods are true, but on the other hand i dont know god is true, so i can also accept that i dont know, which is true, as the claims are unknown

only 3 position exist on any imaginary claim

you have to be good this year if you want presents from santa

atheism is not 1 thing, atheism is a position on an imaginary claim, so on any imagianry claim there is an atheist position

if i disbelieve science, i am an atheist to science, but i cant disbelieve without having a belief to begin with
Sarra

Con

We agree that denying other gods (or false idols as Christians call them) is part of Christianity"s theism.
Christians believe in God (c -> bG)
Atheists do not have a belief with regards to God (a -> ~bG)
Having a belief with regards to God is something Atheists are not (do not possess) (bG -> ~a)
Therefore, Christians are something that atheists are not (Christians cannot be Atheists) (c -> ~a)
Also, (a -> ~c): Atheists are something that Christians are not (Atheists cannot be Christians)

Sorry for not noticing your question at first. I tried to answer your question in the comments. If you believe all gods are false, then you are an atheist. If you believe some gods are false, then not enough information is provided to classify you on the spectrum of atheist " spiritual - theist.

Your position is you have a belief, but are unsure if your belief is true. This means you are a normal human being. Claiming something that is unknown as truth is not a valid or sound claim. This is not to say that claiming the unknown as truth is necessarily false.

The specific belief of "i dont believe any gods are false, but i dont believe any of them are true" would make you fall in the category called spiritual. Lots of normal people are spiritual. There is nothing wrong with being spiritual.

We fundamentally disagree on the supposed requirement of disbelief for atheists. A person raised outside of religion (both individually and community) would have no knowledge of religion. This person would have no concept of God(s) with which to adhere or disobey. This person would have no belief system with which to reject. This person would be an atheist without disbelief.

Sorry for rushing this part " I need to get to work soon.
Debate Round No. 4
vi_spex

Pro

if the atheist position.. is not a belief, what is my position if i disbelieve god claims? if i believe god claims are false

you can say atheism is not a belief all you want, i will keep repeating the moon is made of cheese

beliefs are false, religion is false
Sarra

Con

I do not know your exact position due to a lack of more specific information regarding your exact beliefs or lack thereof, your life experiences, major events in your life, your upbringing, et cetera.

A major group of people that do not believe in god consider themselves to be spiritualists. These people consider themselves "spiritual but not religious". Spiritualists typically believe in the physical world and the metaphysical cosmology. They believe that there is some higher power, but that power is not a god. They typically view their journey as one of personal growth and development. The exact tenants of spirituality are not set in stone, thus each individual will prescribe to different philosophies and guiding principles. Some example philosophies and practices include but are not limited to the usage of crystals, meditation, vegetarianism or veganism, breathing practices, burning of incense, and pilgrimages.

People with the position of disbelieving the god claims or believing the god claims to be false could also be members of a wide range of religions such as Animist, Totemist, Shamanist, Buddhist, or Shinto.

Atheist and atheism are titles that people attribute to other people who do not have a conception of a god. Lots of atheists have grown up in a culture where the idea of a god exists. These atheists hold the position that there are no deities with which to disbelieve. This is to say they have a fundamental rejection of the concept of deities. Lots of other atheists have grown up in cultures where the idea of a god does not exist. These atheists do not consider themselves atheist, because they do not have the conception of a god (for example rural New Guinea tribes). People with no conception of a god cannot have a belief about a god is and cannot have a belief about what god is not. If you disbelieve a god claims, then you have conception what a god is not. If you have a conception of what a god is not, then your position is not within the atheist community.

Thanks for the debate and have a good day :D
-Olivia
Debate Round No. 5
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
isnow
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
Worms*
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
there is no true or honest point to make beyond personal experience

to rorms, the beauty of rainbows dosnt exist
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
belief is nothing, know is something
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
You can believe anything. If you do not want to know anything. What is believe and what is knowing...? it is not simple, and there is no "real" answer. Trying to know is impossible. Trying to believe is a lie.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
am i wearing a hat right now?
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
i dont believe any gods are false, but i dont believe any of them are true
Posted by Sarra 1 year ago
Sarra
Ohhh -- if you believe all gods are false, then you are an atheist. If you believe some gods are false, then not enough information is provided to classify you on the spectrum of atheist -- theist.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
if i believe that gods are false what is my position?
Posted by Sarra 1 year ago
Sarra
What is your question?
No votes have been placed for this debate.