The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
TheJuniorVarsityNovice
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

atheism is belief that god is false, disbelief

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
TheJuniorVarsityNovice
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/21/2015 Category: Science
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,766 times Debate No: 76768
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (89)
Votes (1)

 

vi_spex

Pro

theism=belief=yes position
atheism=disbelief=belief=theism=no position
agnostic=acceptance i dont know=maybe position

only 3 positions exist on any imaginary claim, any religious claim, any false claim
TheJuniorVarsityNovice

Con

atheism = a + theism

a = without/lacking

theism = belief in a god or gods

atheism = lacking the belief in a god or gods

Therefore atheism is not solely disbelief, it is non-belief, meaning you have no belief or are ignorant. Disbelief is a smaller part of nonbelief, it fits the definition but is not the whole picture.

This implies that anything with the capacity to believe, which has never heard of any gods, is an atheist. babies are atheists, monkeys are atheists. Athiesm CAN be belief that god is false, but not always, in fact, usually it is not because so many things don't know what god even is so they are ignorant and have (0)belief.

Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

if i claim i am wearing a hat right now, and you believe i am lying, you are an atheist, what else would you be?

disbelief is belief
TheJuniorVarsityNovice

Con

(+)Belief - A belief that something Does exist
(-)Belief - A belief that something Does Not exist
(0)Belief - The lack of any belief, ignorance. (do not mistake this for being agnostic)



I agree 100% with everything vi-spex has said so far...but this doesn't affirm the resolution for you. Vi-Spex has to show that atheism is ONLY a negative belief in god, I'm here to show that this is a misconception and that there is more to atheism than just a (-)belief.

The Only thing atheism means is "Lack of a (+)belief in a god or gods"

Now, imagine those people who do not know about the concept of god. Those people have a (0)belief in god. They still lack a (+)belief, and thus are still atheists.

To give credit to my derivation of the definition of atheism see the next part:

a - "not/without" [1]
theism - "the belief that God exists or that many gods exist"[2]

notice that the prefix 'a' means without belief, not belief against.

This is my argument.

Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

atheism can never be lack of belief. answer the question to see this.. it should be easy

atheism is the negative position on an imaginary claim, the no position, nothing more and nothing less

answer the question...
TheJuniorVarsityNovice

Con

There is no question to answer lol, so I can't answer.


the following will be air-tight logic, if none of these points are refuted then I cannot, in good conscience, be voted against.


logical proof:

1.)There are 3 types of belief: (+), (0), and (-)

2.) According to the roots and definitions I have given, atheism simply means, "Lack of (+)belief".

3.) These three types of belief are inherentlymutually exclusive, meaning someone cannot hold both as true without a logical contradiction. So in other words, you can't believe god IS and IS Not real, you cannot believe god Does exist and hold No-Belief, and you cannot believe god Does Not exist and hold No-Belief about his existance. Doing so would be a logical contradiction.....Once again, logically you cannot simultaneously have: (-,+), (-,0), (+,0), nor (+,-,0). They are independent states which Do Not co-mingle, this is in line with the Law of Non-contradiction*.

3.) If someone has a (-)belief about god then they DO "Lack a (+)belief", and are thus atheist.....If someone has a (0)belief then they DO "Lack a (+)belief", and are atheist as well.

4.) Vi-spex must show that atheism is ONLY disbelief [aka...(-)belief]. However, because of the last few premises we know that (0)belief is ALSO Atheism. This implies that (+) and (-) are both, independently, atheism. and thus that (-)belief is Not the only position that is atheist.

5.) Thus the resolution cannot be affirmed.



*Law of Non-contradiction: "In classical logic, the law of non-contradiction(LNC) (or the law of contradiction(PM) or theprinciple of non-contradiction(PNC), or the principle of contradiction) is the second of the three classic laws of thought. It states that contradictory statements cannot both be true in the same sense at the same time, e.g. the two propositions "A is B" and "A is not B" are mutually exclusive." ~Wikii: https://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

belief is the positive position on an imaginary claim, disbelief is negative, and agnostic is balance

there is no such thing as a non belief being a belief, you are beyond deluded..

agnostic=all g no stick

everything you are saying has already been disputed
TheJuniorVarsityNovice

Con

Sure, I will agree that no belief is NOT belief, that only makes sense, but so what? No belief is STILL atheism.


The 4 L's

1.) Litterally Anything that is not (+)belief is atheism.
2.) Lack of belief is not (+)belief.
3.) Logically, you can't believe nothing and something at the same time.
4.) Lack of belief is atheism
Debate Round No. 4
vi_spex

Pro

disbelieving my claim is never not believing it

there are 3 positions
TheJuniorVarsityNovice

Con

According to that logic, if animal X said to you "I am a monkey" and you said "I do not believe you", then that sentence would never mean that you disbelieve the creature. Of course this could mean that you disbelieve and thus have a (-)belief, but it could also simply mean that you harbor neither a (-) nor a (+) belief...aka, no belief...aka (0)belief.

I do not think the opponent refutes my logical proof and thus I don't see how he can be voted for. I thus extend it:

1.) Litterally Anything that is not (+)belief is atheism.
2.) Lack of belief is not (+)belief.
3.) Logically, you can't believe nothing and something at the same time.
4.) Lack of belief is atheism
5.) Thus lack of belief and negative belief are both atheism
6.) The opponent should only win when he proves only negative belief is atheism (disbelief)
7.) Thus he should not be able to affirm
Debate Round No. 5
89 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
you agree with my position
Posted by ChrisKay 2 years ago
ChrisKay
i think both parties need more reading.
atheism = doesn't mean that they do not believe in God. but rather that they believe that there is no God. it is a big difference
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
if i show you a full hand of fingers, and you see 5 fingers, do you believe my claim that i am showing you 3 fingers?

if i take my hand on my back, and claim i am showing 5 fingers on my back, is it then true for you to say, yes its true i know you have 5 fingers behind your back?

just this one message****************
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
nah forget that one about the dog i did something wrong
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
that there is not a dog in the room*
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
i know that you are showing 5 fingers behind your back*
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
if i take my hand on my back, and claim i am showing 5 fingers on my back, is it then true for you to say, yes its true i know you have 5 fingers behind your back?
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
if you can claim you dont know and it be true ever
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
how do you not know that there is a dog in the room
Posted by vi_spex 2 years ago
vi_spex
define know..

you have no position Again

if i show you a full hand of fingers, and you see 5 fingers, do you believe my claim that i am showing you 3 fingers?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by tajshar2k 2 years ago
tajshar2k
vi_spexTheJuniorVarsityNoviceTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro simply repeated himself over and over again, and never even refuted any of Con's arguments. Con did refute them, so I have to give the vote to Con. Pro's grammar was very poor also, so I give my vote to Con. Also, Con only used sources.