The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Losing
4 Points
The Contender
1Credo
Con (against)
Winning
17 Points

atheism is theism

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
1Credo
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/15/2014 Category: Science
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 437 times Debate No: 67046
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (4)

 

vi_spex

Pro

god=Creator

creation and destruction only happens in the mind, destruction=turn my back

creation cant exist without creator, so the creator is the creation, cause and effect

it being in my mind, is me being it

I am the all seeing eye pyramid capstone reflection flying at the top of a pyramid, I am god

A=all that can possibly be experienced, future past and now

information=separation, like i can reach infinity without ever being able to experience it in reality, at least the non ending part

god is false, god is information, and information exist beyond space and time, as it is nothing, which is the opposite of something, matter, 0 and 1

because god is information, any belief is theism, as any belief, is belief in god

YOU ACCEPT BY JOINING
1Credo

Con

I accept. My opponent has the burden of proof and must show that atheism is theism in order to win this debate.

For atheism and theism to be identical, they must have identical definitions. Atheism and theism do not have identical definitions:

Atheism: (a) a disbelief in the existence of deity(b) the doctrine that there is no deity
Theism: belief in the existence of a God or gods

Sources:
http://www.merriam-webster.com...
http://www.merriam-webster.com...


Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

atheism=disbelief
theism=belief
disbelief=Belief

any belief is belief in god, as I cant believe in reality, and I cant know imagination
1Credo

Con

"disbelief=Belief"

This is false. disbelief does not equal belief, just as atheism does not equal theism. The burden of proof is on you to show these assertions to be true.
Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

disbelief is belief to the contrary, to believe god is false where as the theist believes god is true

theism=belief=i accept imagination
a(theism)=dis(belief)=i accept imagination
agnostic=i accept i dont know=i accept reality

reality is true, and imagination is false, belief is always false, and know can only be true

for me to believe god is false, I am imagining the evidence to prove to myself that what I imagine is false, its like me accepting god is false by accepting god is true, not accepting 0 by accepting 0 as both sides are information, god

belief is doubt, so to believe god is false, is to doubt god is false, and as a balance I must believe god is true

basicly:
theism=belief
disbelief=belief

just answer this question.. which I bet you will skip.. am I holding a rock in my hand? you have to imagine it
1Credo

Con

I agree that theism and atheism are both beliefs, but they are not identical beliefs (they are opposite beliefs). And if that's the case, then atheism most certainly is not theism.

"just answer this question.. which I bet you will skip.. am I holding a rock in my hand? you have to imagine it"

I'm not sure if you're holding a rock in your hand, and I fail to see how that's relevant.
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

they are both beliefs, but opposite positions, doubt is the balancing point

where as agnostic(I don't know) is the balancing point between theism and atheism

as I said, belief is doubt, what is your neighbor doing right now? you don't know is true unless you know, there is no certainty beyond know, as know is certainty, and i don't know is a position of know

what would make you sure i was holding a rock in my hand? hmm since i bet you are of science, what evidence could make it sufficient for you to be certain that i am holding a rock in my hand, but you still have to imagine it?

i can at best believe what others tell me, if you believe i am holding a rock in my hand, i am your god, as i create your world, and you can believe i am not holding a rock in my hand to, but what is the difference? when you don't know
1Credo

Con

"they are both beliefs, but opposite positions,"

Is this a concession? In order to win the debate, you'd need to show that atheism and theism are identical. You've just admitted that they are opposite positions.
Debate Round No. 4
vi_spex

Pro

they are both beliefs, and belief is theism

am I holding a rock in my hand as I type this?

theist=yes
atheist=no
agnostic=I Don't know=true

you see?

the problem is, both theist and atheist dosnt know, therefore its the same position, just in opposition, so it is the position that is opposite

the opposite of belief is knowledge, future and past, and the future is ahead ahead of my personal physical experience of now

the opposite of disbelief, is belief, but that is the position on the claim, the balancing point between belief and disbelief is doubt, and the balancing point between atheism and theism is agnostic, and agnostic goes to what I know, which is to say, I know I don't know, therefore I don't know is true

god=unicorns
1Credo

Con

My opponent has failed to carry the burden of proof in this debate by showing that atheism is theism.

As such, we can reasonably conclude that atheism is not theism.

Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
imagination is not a thing, but I get what you are saying

without my imagination I cant think, so imagination is thinking

thinking=talking to myself

communication is, the word, and the comprehension of it, how do you comprehend the word superman without your imagination

matter is space and time, information is the opposite of matter and exist beyond space and time, only the time of now is true

I can time travel by being now
Posted by BDPershing 1 year ago
BDPershing
Thinking and imagining are two different things if your thinking logically, its like running a math problem. Imagining is when you try to recreate what you see or what you want to experience into a personal dimension of infinite time and space not bounded by physical reality
I don't not say I didn't know I stated its unclear,

Unclear:
"not obvious or definite; ambiguous"
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
if i am not there, i have to imagine the tree falling
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
you are implying the tree is falling in reality, so i know its falling in which case i know it makes a sound because reality is what it is

you don't know if i am holding a rock in my hand, is true, because you have to imagine it

i don't know=i have to imagine it, like my neighbor

imagination is false

false=anywhere beyond my personal physical experience of now

know=physical experience of now
Posted by BDPershing 1 year ago
BDPershing
If no one is around to hear a falling tree, does it make a sound.
Do I have to imagine a tree falling down? No, Logic simply tells me it does for when to forces collide it make certain after effects, as we know in this reality of this physical existence an after effect is sound, therefor it does.
So when you ask,
" am I holding a rock in my hand?"

I might as well be asking you,
"Am I god?"

For the answer is not clear since this interaction is through a computer.
But the likely hood of you, for some random reason, holding a rock at the time asked and even now. Is probably not.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
vi_spex1CredoTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con was able to negate the resolution in round one with definitions. Only Con had sources
Vote Placed by MettaWorldPeace 1 year ago
MettaWorldPeace
vi_spex1CredoTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Con never refuted disbelief being a type of belief
Vote Placed by Eli01 1 year ago
Eli01
vi_spex1CredoTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO utterly failed.
Vote Placed by Blade-of-Truth 1 year ago
Blade-of-Truth
vi_spex1CredoTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct - Tie. Both had proper conduct throughout. S&G - Con. Pro failed to capitalize in nearly every round. Con had no such errors in regards to spelling and grammar. Arguments - Con. Pro failed to show how atheism and theism were identical. Pro presented alot of hogwash and false dichotomies. Pro even finished the debate by saying God=unicorns. Con presented coherent rebuttals in each round and effectively showed how Pro failed to uphold the BOP. For these reasons, Con wins arguments. Sources - Con. Although the sources were definitions in nature, they served a purpose in clarification that Pro failed to match. Thus Con is awarded these points. Clear win for Con.