The Instigator
mcnugget
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
brontoraptor
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

banning muslims from entering the country is unconstitutional

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/12/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 321 times Debate No: 91131
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

mcnugget

Pro

The first round is just acceptance. Whoever takes the challenge be prepared to debate I do not want someone that will forfeit rounds. I hope for a good debate.
brontoraptor

Con

I accept. Here's to a good debate.
Debate Round No. 1
mcnugget

Pro

Ok first off most people that argue your point would say, that Terrorist are mixed in with them and it would just be better if none of them were let in. Here is the problem with that, the first amendment clearly states that anyone within the united states has freedom of religion. You can not discriminate and kick someone out because of their religion. A lot of people that want Muslims out defend the second amendment saying is absurd that people would consider to change it. And why they do this they forget the first amendment that gives everyone basic freedoms like freedom of religion yet they argue to keep Muslims out.
brontoraptor

Con

As a sovereign nation, the United States government has complete authority to decide who may enter the country, and the conditions for entry by those who seek to enter it. No foreigner has any "right" to enter the country. It is a privelage and can be taken away. If a person or group is a threat to the security of the United States, we are constitutionally and legally obligated to protect the country and the Constitution.

Pro has given us a decleration of religious freedoms that are given to Americans. The problem is...foreigners are not Americans, nor do they have American rights. In the same way, I do not have "Pakistani rights" or "Afghanistani rights". Why? I am not a citizen of those countries. Otherwise, I can legally have slaves, sex slaves, 4 wives, and can physically submit my wives into submission if they get "out of hand", which obviously is not true. I don't have their rights. They don't have mine. Muslims who are American citizens, have American rights. Foreigners, whether Muslim or something else, do not have American rights.

Anyone in the U.S. military and anyone becoming a U.S. citizen is required to state the oath of allegiance to the United States of America. Here is that oath:

-I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.


So as a U.S. citizen we have certain allegiances:

1)Have no allegiances to foreign powers.

2) support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

3)To take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion.

If you have allegiances to any foreign agent, you have broken the oath and are an enemy of the U.S. If you have any motive to break this obligation to the U.S., you are an enemy of the U.S. per the oath of citizenship.

*

With a ban on Muslim immigration, we are not talking about isolation. We are talking about security.

*

"The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion to another. In the words of Jefferson, the First Amendment clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to "erect a wall of separation between church and State. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We can not approve the slightest breach."

With the nature of Sharia(Islamic Law), Islam is by its own definition of itself, is a threat to the national security of America. It's nature puts it into the category of a threat to the Constitution.

Why can we broadly declare Islam a threat to the U.S. Constitution?

---It is a belief system that is non-democratic. Under Sharia, one can be dismembered, beheaded, and killed without anything that resembles the democratic model of judicial rights.

-Homosexuals are to be killed per the Sharia. This is a violation of American law.

-Females are literally half of a man when giving a testimony. This is a violation of American law.

-Women are required to cover themselves. This is a violation of American law.

-Women are to be beaten physically when "out of line" with a man under Sharia. This is a violation of American law.

-Islam is commanded to conquer nonmuslims per the Quran and Islamic law. This is a violation of American law and a national security threat to the United States.

-Muslims are commanded to lie (taqiya) to nonmuslims to progress the power of Sharia at any cost. If under oath, this is a violation of American law and a threat to national security. Espionage and treason are a felony under erican law.

This is the strategy used by the 9/11 hijackers. They went to stripclubs and bars to "fit in" or "blend in" to American society and go unnoticed by law enforcement. They killed thousands in one shot. The Sharia and Quran gave them this authority.

-The Quran commands the death of all nonmuslims. This is a threat to the Constitution and the entire nonmuslim world.

-The Quran commands all of the Earth be conquered for Islam. This is a national security threat to the United States of America.
Debate Round No. 2
mcnugget

Pro

mcnugget forfeited this round.
brontoraptor

Con

In 1979, President Jimmy Carter banned Iranians fromcoming to the U.S. during the hostage crisis.

Carter expelled Iranians from the country during the extended hostage crisis that was caused by the Islamic takeover of the U.S. embassy in Tehran. Why? National security. Constitutional? Yes.



In December of that year, a U.S. Appeals Court allowed for the deportation of over 7,000 Iranian students who were found to have visa violations. About 15,000 Iranians were told to leave the United States.

And on an added note, Iranians entering the United States were forced to submit to extra border screening, and many Iranians’ existing visas were cancelled.

Also, U.S. officials said they would consider a person’s religion when granting or denying visas to individual Iranians, according to the Washington Post report.

*

Under U.S. Code, the president does have the statutory authority to keep anyone out of the country, for any reason he thinks best. Per 8 USC S1182


*

-Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.


*

Yes, the president has the authority to do exactly what Donald Trump has described. And interestingly enough, this kind of thing has happened before.

*

In the late 1800s, Congress passed legislation broadly aimed at halting the immigration of Chinese laborers. Those were not fully repealed until 1943. Quotas limiting immigration based on race and national origin were also enacted in the early 1900s. Racial quotas were repealed in 1952, and those limiting people based on national origin were eliminated in 1965.

Debate Round No. 3
mcnugget

Pro

First off I would like to apologize for forfeiting I completely forgot I had this debate going. hold on now in the 2nd round you said " Pro has given us a declaration of religious freedoms that are given to Americans. The problem is...foreigners are not Americans, nor do they have American rights." You don't have to be an American to have religious freedom in America you still have rights just not some like the right to vote.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." That is the first amendment which clearly states no laws will be made to restrict religion. https://en.wikipedia.org...

You then say all of the unconstitutional things the Quran and Sharia law contain which I agree are bad but the bible contains similar violations such as That women should be submissive and beaten if they try to take authority over men. 1 Timothy 2:11-15

also that unbelievers should be stoned to death Deuteronomy 17 Or Deuteronomy 13

also to rape murder and pillage if the lord says so: Numbers 31:7-18, Judges 21:10-24, Deuteronomy 20:10-14,Deuteronomy 22:28-29,Deuteronomy 22:23-24, 2 Samuel 12:11-14 , Deuteronomy 21:10-14, Judges 5:30, Exodus 21:7-11, and Zechariah 14:1-2

So is this not also a threat? should we ban Christians from the country too? no only extremist groups would follow such rules and laws like Isis but we should not ban a group of people only those that directly break the law.
brontoraptor

Con

Pro:


"You don't have to be an American to have religious freedom in America."


Perhaps. But if you aren't here, are a citizen of another country, and are standing in Afghanistan, you have no American Constitutional right to simply come to America as an asylumseeker or refugee unless granted that right. The President can bring you here. The President can keep you from here. That is a part of the authority of the Executive Branch. Point? The people Pro is talking about are not in America. They are outside of America. That's why we are discussing whether or not they can be blocked from entering. They simply are not here, nor are they Americans.


*


Pro: "The First Amendment"


The First Amendment applies to American citizens who are actually in America. If an American breaks Saudi Arabian speech laws in Saudi Arabia, the First Amendment will not save them. An Iranian living and walking in Iran is not protected by American law.


We cannot restrict religion to American citizens in America. Any such concept iseaningless concerning aliens living in the Andramada Galaxy. The U.S. Constitution does not protect the religious freedom of aliens from Alpha Centari. Why? They aren't us.


*


Pro has mentioned 1 Timothy 2:11-15 from the Christian Bible. I read the passages. They all speak of being submissive. This is not a threat to the national security of America. It's similar to Janeism beliefs. To say Janeism is a national security threat is irrational and a false dichotomy. The same with commands in a letter to be a good quiet listener. "Kill them wherever you find them. Humiliate them. Destroy them..." THAT is a national security threat. Why? Because "them" is us. It's not a mere coincidence that when you hear the words "suicide bomber", you know it was a Muslim. There are no Atheist suicide bombers. There are no Christian suicide bombers. Why? Atheism isn't commanded to do anything and Christian martyrdom does not come from killing others. Islamic martyrdom does. Killing infidels in the Quran automatically gets you into Heaven. This is why you see so many Islamic suicide bombers. Martyrdom by killing infidels. Martyrdom by dying in the process. So in Islam it is to your benefit in the eyes of Allah to kill us, hate us, and destroy us, per the Quran.


*


Pro:


(Point 1)
"also that unbelievers should be stoned to death Deuteronomy 17 Or Deuteronomy 13"


(Point 2)
"also to rape murder and pillage if the lord says so: Numbers 31:7-18, Judges 21:10-24, Deuteronomy 20:10-14,Deuteronomy 22:28-29,Deuteronomy 22:23-24, 2 Samuel 12:11-14 , Deuteronomy 21:10-14, Judges 5:30, Exodus 21:7-11, and Zechariah 14:1-2"


Rebuttle:


There is a trend to every single verse that Pro has listed. Without exception, every single verse is from the Law of Moses in the Old Covenant of Judaism. To blindly attach it to Christianity, which is a seperate religion, is a false dichotomy. Notice that you know no Christians that "stone adulterers", sacrifice animals, etc. Why?


-Jesus on stoning adulterers:


"He who is without sin cast the first stone."
(John 8:7)


In Pro's first point, Moses said stone adulterers. Jesus refused and rejected the assertion.


-Jesus seperated Himself and Christians from these archaic, Jewish Old Testament rules.


In Matthew 15:11, the Pharisees brought forth the Law of Moses regarding "unclean foods" and washing of hands to come against Jesus because He ignored them. Here was Jesus' response:
"What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them."


*rejection of Law of Moses*


In Luke 14:5, the Pharisees came against Him concerning the Law of Moses and the Sabbath, trying to once again use this law to attack Him. Here was His response:


Then he asked them, "If one of you has a child or an ox that falls into a well on the Sabbath day, will you not immediately pull it out?"


*rejection of Law of Moses


Point? He didn't give a flying crap what the Law of Moses said. The difference between Christianity and Islam is thatIslam has no New Testament, no Sermon on the Mount, no Jesus Christ-like character. They only have Muhammed. Jesus is Christianity's infallable role model. Muhammed is Islam's infallable role model.


*


Jesus/Christianity


-"Love your enemy."
(Matthew 5:44)
-"Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you."
(Matthew 7:12)
-"Husbands love your wives, and do not be harsh with them."
(Collosians 3:19)


---


Muhammed/Islam


"Kill them(nonmuslims) wherever you find them."
(Quran 2:191)
- And those (wives) you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them into submission.
(Quran 4:34)
(8:12) behead nonbelievers
(8:39) Destroy us until Islam reigns supreme
(9:5) kill us
(9:29)Fight us
(9:111)Killing us gets you to Heaven
(9:123) Fight us
(47:4)Behead us
(48:29)Brothers only to Muslims. Enemies to us.

And the biggest kicker of all. Muslims are commanded to lie to us, not assimilate with us unless if to destroy/conquer us(9/11 hijackers), outbreed us, intermix with us, pretend to be one of us, rape our females, take sex slaves, espionage us, become our police, teachers, leaders, whatever it takes. Just destroy us and make the world completely Islam.

http://www.al-islam.org...

Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by vi_spex 9 months ago
vi_spex
let in the cannibals then
No votes have been placed for this debate.