The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Harvard-2017
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

belief=false=wrong

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/2/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 227 times Debate No: 93288
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

vi_spex

Pro

knowledge=truth=right
Harvard-2017

Con

If one adheres to logical rules, then, belief does not entail wrongness. For example, one can believe that they will fall down on a given day. Assuming they do not intentionally cause themselves to fall, and that they do in fact fall on that day, then, their belief was rendered true.
I will add some formality to another example of logical argumentation:
(i) I saw Jim walk out of the grocery store with 2 store bags full of items;
(ii) That specific grocery store only issues out bags for customers with purchased items;
(iii) Therefore, it is likely (or I believe) that Jim purchased items from said store.
This inductive argument concludes with a belief that, albeit likely, may not be true.
Induced conclusions are likely true (though susceptible to being false), whereas deduced conclusions, if sound, are necessarily true.
Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

the belief was not true, what is true in that case is that the person fell on that day
Harvard-2017

Con

Definitions:

Belief: A firmly held conviction (1).

Truth: that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality (2).
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To have a conviction that you will fall on day X, and then to fall on day X, rendered the conviction true.; to say elsewise entails that you did not fall on day X, which is false.

My formal argument as to Jim an the store bag provided a better framework; I'll repost:

(i) I saw Jim walk out of the grocery store with 2 store bags full of items;
(ii) That specific grocery store only issues out bags for customers with purchased items;
(iii) Therefore, it is likely (or I believe) that Jim purchased items from said store.

My belief that Jim purchased the aforesaid items may or may not be true; thus it is not inherently false, as you assert.

For you to successfully rebut this argument you will have to illustrate a logical flaw(s) therein.
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(1): https://www.google.com...
(2): https://www.google.com...
Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

it is true that you fell on that day then.. not a belief... once you know it, it is not a belief

so is it true that jim bought groceries in the store? or did he steal or find it or have one from last time

jim either bought items in the store or not.. which is true?
Harvard-2017

Con

PRO: **it is true that you fell on that day then.. not a belief... once you know it, it is not a belief.**

Belief does not equal knowledge, I wholly appreciate that. But as you insistently imply, belief does not presuppose knowledge. A belief is either true or false, but has the lexical context of being presently unknown. It is profoundly fallacious, and definitionally incorrect to assert that belief is equivalent to falsity.

PRO: **so is it true that jim bought groceries in the store? or did he steal or find it or have one from last time[?]**

The Jim argument was not intended to give an answer, rather its purpose was to demonstrate how my belief of his baggage containing purchased store goods could either be true or false, whichever way you choose to answer.

As per your logic, if Jim in fact did buy the items from the store, and I believe that he did (without knowing that he did), my belief is therefore false. How can my belief be false if he did in fact buy the groceries?
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by whiteflame 7 months ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: fire_wings// Mod action: Removed<

3 point to Con (Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments

[*Reason for removal*] The RFD is extremely difficult to access. The link leads to another link, which leads to another link, which doesn't work correctly.
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Posted by vi_spex 7 months ago
vi_spex
vague if you dont understand how to debate
Posted by TheWaywardWriter 7 months ago
TheWaywardWriter
Pro, go do your opponent a favor and define the terms. They're all too vague.
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