The Instigator
Pro (for)
0 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
4 Points

belief=(is)be lie, as i have to imagine it=religion=false

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/7/2015 Category: Science
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 515 times Debate No: 69606
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
Votes (1)





religion is a position on an imaginary claim, to rely on, while self is one


My opponent has attempted to claim that atheism, disbelief, belief and theism are all in fact the same. He has also claimed that religion is an imaginary claim, whereas only the self is true.

However, he is wrong in a few major ways.

Disbelief is not truly atheism desbelief is lack of faith in something wheras athism is the belief that there is/are no god/s. An atheist can have faith and therefore disbelief does not equal atheism. The same holds true in inverse for belief and theism.

His point that religion is a position on an imaginary claim is simply false. If religion is considered to be a position as he stated then the claim is existence. As one cannot attempt to disprove existence without simultaeneously accepting it, logically this point falls. His point on self reliance is non-topical as it questions the relevance of religion not its reality.

For my own points we must look back at the resolution. Belief is not a lie, as belief is faith in something. I can believe in something that is true or false, however the belief does not affect the distinction.

We must also remember that neither imagination nor religion are inherently false. Both are culminations of the material world and contemplation by the consiouness. To label either "false" is a gross musunderstanding.
Debate Round No. 1


religion is a "Position" on an imaginary claim

i have never said only the self is true..

disbelief is belief, and belief is faith

if you disbelieve the claim that i am wearing a hat right now(believe that i am Not wearing a hat), how are you more certain that i am, given the claim is totaly imaginary?

religion is, a position in an imaginary claim, how can a theist be a thesit without it? not to mention an atheist..

i dont have to rely on my self, as self is necessary

belief is false, reality is unbelieved, can not be belived, as know is something, and belief is nothing, these Words i am typing on my keyboard that is something is something i can see with my eyes, i know i am reading these Words, i dont have to imagine it, therfore belief is negated by measure of absolute

religion is false, as i dont know is true, and i dont know is a position that i know, and only know is true

imagination is false, eat imaginary food for a month to prove me wrong, corpsi


My opponent says that he never claimed that only self is true. However, this is the conclusion that he attempted to achieve when he compared self to "an imaginary claim"

My opponent agrees with me when he says,"if you disbelieve the claim that i am wearing a hat right now(believe that i am Not wearing a hat), how are you more certain that i am, given the claim is totaly imaginary?". As I also pointed out, "belief does not affect the distinction. "

He then goes on to restate his claims without even attempting to negate my rebuttals of them. He says that "self is neccasary" however this is not true. The only things that philosophically must exist are existence and consciousness. Existence because you cannot disprove it without accepting it, and conciousness because to disprove it you must use it.

His next claim is that "belief is false". We agreed that belief doesn't make something true. However, he fails to see that the inverse is also true. Belief doesn't make something flase either. He states that "belief is negated by measure of absolute". However, as it is impossible to truly prove anything without premises, which are believed, in save existence and consciousness this logically falls apart.

His next claim is that religion is false because "I dont know is true". However, as I said earlier what you believe. or think you know, does not affect the reality of it.

He states that imagination is false, however imagination is not false because it exists as signals in the brain.
Debate Round No. 2


no its your conclusion, and its false, you can believe it if you wish, i would have to beleive you are not alive for that claim to be true

you dont answer my questions..

other is necessary but not yourself, i get your point and accept it as right for you

belief IS false, it dosnt make anything false, as its nothing


so superman is true then? i am imagining him flying around right now


I don't know to which conclusion you are refering to...

I again don't know what question is didn't answer. If you are referring to "how are you more certain that i am, given the claim is totaly imaginary?" I had thought it was a rhetorical question.

That you for accetping my point.

Belief is not nothing. Look to the Crusades. Those wars, although not solely cause by, were heavily influenced by belief. How can nothing have an effect?

Knowledge is not life, as a bacterium has no knowledge, yet is alive, and a computer has knowledge, yet is not alive.

Your point about Superman is again something that we have already agreed upon. Belief and imagination do not affect the reality of the object or ideal, however that does not make them false. Having and effect and being false are two very different things.
Debate Round No. 3


i was talking about the self claim, i dont claim others are not aware, you know

i dont know what retorical Means, to me a question is a question


like you cant have 0 bananas in your hand but you can understand that you cant even thou 0 bananas can never exist in reality

reason is nothing, and beliefs inform actions, so basicly a believer dosnt think emote and move on their own given its not a tiny Little belif like where is the spoon i was looking for

knowledge is truth, and know is true, opposites

belief is the opposite of knowledge, and know is the opposite of belief and knowledge

there is no cause and effect relation in my imaginaton beyond mental emotion, i cant grab what i imagine as it dosnt exist in reality

information is the opposite of matter, matter is Space and time and information exist beyond Space and time, information is 0 percent of the light in my personal physical experience


Actually, I don't know. How was I supposed to? Say what you mean.

Rhetorical means a question that is put for effect, not for an answer.

Information is something, and therefore is not something.

I can have 0 bananas in my hand. I have 0 bananas in my hand right now. This is one of the key principles of math. That 0 exists. Therefore by definition 0 exists.

Reason is not nothing. Belief does inform action. However believers do think. They move on their own in an attempt to follow their beliefs, but they still use reason to figure out what they should do.

Knowledge is not "truth" because knowledge is not absolute. Know and Knowledge are not opposites.

There is cause and effect in imagination. It is based upon what is processed by the brain. Your imagination truly creates nothing, it merely compliles information gathered by the rest of the brain.

Information is not the opposite of matter. Information is a method of learning about matter. Matter is not space and time, it is merely space. Information exists in both space and time. Your last sentence makes no sense.
Debate Round No. 4


vi_spex forfeited this round.


My opponent has forfeited, and so has not rebutted my points. Vote con on courtesy and content.
Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Lee001 3 years ago
Okay, fixed it!
Posted by Lee001 3 years ago
I meant to vote for Con dangit!
Posted by Lee001 3 years ago
This is sooo deep that I dont understand lol.
Posted by vi_spex 3 years ago
its okay i make a new one

and a hint to the religious, judgement reveals defeat and emotional attachmet to information
Posted by JP_Hatecraft 3 years ago
I probably shouldn't have accepted, I was just kinda bored...
Posted by Lee001 3 years ago
This is ridiculous -ness lol
Posted by vi_spex 3 years ago
the problem of evil
Posted by Lee001 3 years ago
O my gosh......not THIS again
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Lee001 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture.