Debate Rounds (3)
As this topic is that Belief = Supernatural = False all I have to do is break this chain.
1. (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
1. manifestations or events considered to be of supernatural origin, such as ghosts.
1. not according with truth or fact; incorrect.
2. appearing to be the thing denoted; deliberately made or meant to deceive.
So the acceptance of something that is true = a force beyond scientific understanding? = Incorrect?
As you can see, Belief does not have to be anything related to a force beyond our understanding, it is simply accepting a fact that is true or that you have confidence is true. So his chain is broken and are no longer relateable.
As for his statement: "i am wearing a dragon on my head.. its huge but i am a giant.. so is my hat blue or does it spew fire?"
I have two choices that he has given me, is it a blue hat or a dragon that spews fire?
Well choosing either of these would be neither correct nor incorrect:
1. I do not have enough information, he stated he is wearing a dragon on his head and he is a giant, nothing about wearing a hat. Hence the hat could just be a trick.
A. a mythical monster like a giant reptile. In European tradition the dragon is typically fire-breathing and tends to symbolize chaos or evil, whereas in East Asia it is usually a beneficent symbol of fertility, associated with water and the heavens.
B. another term for flying dragon.
He could easily be wearing a Flying Dragon on his head, after all its just a lizard that can glide. So I cannot rule out the fact he may be wearing a Dragon.
3. Is he a Giant?
A. an imaginary or mythical being of human form but superhuman size.
B. a star of relatively great size and luminosity compared to ordinary stars of the main sequence, and 10–100 times the diameter of the sun.
C. of very great size or force; gigantic.
He is not using it as a adjective in his sentence as he states he is a giant. Hence he is either a Star or imaginary. Unless everything in existence is not real, then he is lying.
I believe he is lying atleast. This is me having confidence in something I think is true. By his defintion I would be incorrect, since my belief would be something supernatural and henceforth false. However if I am wrong, than so is Reality. And if Reality is false, then would "False" be false? If you are indeed a Giant, an imaginary or mythical being of human form but superhuman size, then you are not real. However since you are trying to prove you are speaking the truth you would then be a contradiction.
1. that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.
2. a fact or belief that is accepted as true.
3. the quality or state of being true.
Here we can see two things. That my latter assumptions were correct, because if he was truly something not real, he would not be true, hence anything he is saying is false.
Second thing we see from this definition is that Truth = Belief. Truth is an antonym of False. Henceforth Belief is not equal to False.
Moving on, let us look at his debate with our new knowledge:
"i am wearing a dragon on my head.. its huge but i am a giant.. so is my hat blue or does it spew fire?"
He claims he is wearing either something mythological like a fire spewing dragon or it could be a lizard that can glide. Maybe that is true. He then claims that he himself is something imaginary by defintion. He claims he is not real, and knowing that Truth is in accordance with reality we can know he is lying. Henceforth we can believe he is lying and we are not false.
He never stated anything about wearing a hat, in fact when he states "is my hat blue" he could be asking if he owns a blue hat. There is no way to answer this. I assume he wants me to believe one thing so he can say I am false, however what he is truly asking in his question is if: His Hat is Blue, Or does his HAT spew Fire. Well this is a question with no answer. I have never seen a hat spew fire, but does my observations hold all reality within it? No it does not. So Pro could indeed have a hat that spews fire. Of course this is not what he is trying to prove, he should be trying to prove that Belief is Supernatural.
Belief is not Supernatural. Truth is something that is in accordance with Reality. We have already established that Belief can be Truth.
With Pro's definiton he describes Supernatural as False, henceforth Belief does not equal Supernatural because he believes Supernatural is the antonym of Truth.
I have broken the chain presented in the topic by Pro and henceforth given my BoP of proving that Belief is not False. Now we shall await for Pro to take up his BoP.
I will leave a sentence for Pro to debunk.
I believe I am natural. Does this mean that the belief that I am natural is false? Henceforth I am Supernatural, and by your defintion False? If I am False, then that is not in accordance with reality, meaning the fact that I am not real would also be False. So what would I be? If being true is false, and being false is false. Is that not a contradiction? I suppose it would fall into a Schrodinger's Cat, I am both Real and False until observed. However that would require for you to believe that Schrodinger's Cat is true, which by your defintion is false.... Again we see how it just simply does not work.
Finally let us turn this on Pro. Pro you believe what you have spoken, it is what you accept as truth. By believing that belief is false, you are using a double negative. You would be "false" to believe anything. Meaning any and everything you accept is true, is a belief, and henceforth false. You may not realize the depth of what you put in this topic but you are stating that Truth is False. Which you do not have any proof to give of that. However the fact that you think it is true that Truth is False, you are wrong by your own definiton.
Pro is Incorrect, on my account and their own.
No matter what Pro states, anything they accept is true, they are stating is a lie. Henceforth we cannot believe anything Pro states. As it would be false to do so, according to Pro's logic.
^_^ I turn the debate over to my opponet.
Pro has asked me:
"so far you have claimed many things, can you demonstrate any belief that is not false?"
Firstly I would like to appluad my opponnet for escaping the logic trap I set up in my first round by stating anythign he states is false. He then asked me a question to escape this, Bravo.
Now to answer the Question.
I believe that there is truth.
If this is false, than it is not true that this is false. You see how this goes? It becomes paradoxal.
Truth is false, and that is true, so it must be false that truth is false. Henceforth Truth is Truth. But if thats false, then it must be true that there is no truth, which would mean there is truth. Except that would be false because truth is false? But if False is True, then that must be true? However it is false that truth is false, henceforth Truth?
I have now given you a Belief that is not false, because it is True, and if it is false then it is true that its false, but the truth that its false is also false hence Truth is still True?
As you can see, I have presented a Belief that is not false because it is True. (I don't want to start the paradox again, I hope everyone already understands my point here.) Henceforth I have met my BoP while Pro has not met his.
Now we await Pro's BoP. I am not entirely sure how he could present it, as he would have to prove that anything that is believed is false, including his belief that belief is false..... Meaning anything he tries to prove, will be admittenly a lie. So what can Pro say to us, that can convince us, if he himself does not believe it? If he does believe it, then he also believes he is false, which would be false to believe, but the belief that it would be false is also false?
AGAIN THE PARADOXES! Oh well.
Base Line: Anything Pro tries to state will be incorrect by his own logic. I have given my BoP and have given the sentence he asked for and proved it True. Pro has yet to prove my Truth is False, and if he does manage to do this, then he is the one who is wrong because all beliefs are wrong, including his beliefs. Remember Belief is what you accept is true, so anything he tries to make us believe is not true. Meaning there is only one person you can believe, and that is Me.
^_^ Muwahahahahahahaha! Can Vi_Spex manage to make us believe his belief is correct? But if we believe him, how could we believe him? We would be wrong to believe him. So how will he manage to win? I don't know but it sounds cool!
Give it your best Vi_Spex!
belief is false
knowledge is truth, opposite of belief
the paradox is how you got everything backwards
only know is true
beliefs are unknown
am i wearing a blue hat or a fire spewing hat?
You tried, but did not manage I am afraid.
Firstly you claim the Belief is false. As shown before, your statement is actually false. Henceforth Belief is not false.
The Paradox cannot be Backwards nor forwards, its a cycle that is never ending, aka a Paradox.
Beliefs are not Unknown, as we all have our own beliefs, and we know them. You claim Know is True, we Know our Beliefs, Beliefs are True.
I do not have any knowledge of Fire Spewing Hats, therefore according to your logic, Fire Spewing Hat is False. I know of Blue Hats, hence that is true. However I do not know whether you are wearing a hat. Hence both answers are wrong. Now just because I do know of any fire spewing hats, does that mean it is always false? No it does not. I could probably douse a hat in gasoline and burn it. I could then make it have a contraption of shooting more oil out of it so it spews fire. Whether this is a good idea or not, I don't know, sounds cool though.
Knowledge is not the opposite of belief.
1. facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.
awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation.
As we can see Knowledge has a lot to do with experince. Not truth, it also holds the theoretical in its definition. Are Theories always true? No! So Knowledge is not always Truth. Neither is Belief, however Belief is always what you believe is true. Knowledge is what facts may point at what could possibly be true.
(Forgot to mention earlier. All definitions are provided by Google.)
Now for how Pro is wrong with his assumptions and pure claims. Lets have an example, those are always good!
Truth 1 + 1 = 2
Knowledge: X + X = 2
Belief: 1 + 1 ≈ 2
False: 1 + 1 ≠ 2
We can see very well how Belief, Knowledge, Truth and False are all different things.
I have shown many examples of how Beliefs can be true, there hasnt been a single proof by Pro that every belief is false.
If Pro does believe that every belief is false, then he must believe he is correct, meaning he is wrong. Because he would believe his own belief is false.
So in accordance with what I have presented I think it is only logical if the Audience, our Judges, disregard any and everything Pro states unless it proves that his belief of beliefs being false is true without him contradicting himself. However everything he has stated has no backing, and is also based of his belief which he himself believes is false. (Another Paradox if you get into it....)
Pro has yet to offer his BoP
Pro has yet to disprove my belief that there is truth.
Pro has yet to prove that his own beliefs are true, when he is stating beliefs are false.
Pro has yet to prove that only that which is known is true.
Pro has yet to prove that he is wearing either, a blue hat or a fire spewing hat.
Pro has yet to prove that the color that he believes is blue is not a false belief. Which would debunk his whole argument.
Pro has yet to prove anything....... And he has already used all his rounds.
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