bible christians - if you lived in old testament days you should have stoned people or supported it
Then some Pharisees and
of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don"t wash their hands before they eat!"
3 Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, "Honor your father and mother"[a] and "Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death."'
'Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses. (Numbers 15:32-36)'
Most people just say they would not stone anyone, nor support it, as if that is the proper response. Then they are unable to articulate why. If you follow the bible though as God's word, as most of these people do, doesn't that mean you would be compelled to stone and/or support it?
~sent a flood (Genesis 7:10-16);
~250 people were burned to death for offering incense (Numb. 1616:35);
~seven people were delivered to the Gibeonites and hung before the Lord (2 Samuel 21:9);
~the pass over, where the spirit killed many first born children (Exodus 11:5); and
~the snakes God sent to the Israelites in the desert because they were complaining (Numbers 21:6-9).
God killed or "looked favourably upon" many killings, that took MANY different forms in the old testament.
Now in Numbers 21:7-9, the snakes in the desert the people came to Moses and told him they were wrong and asked Moses to ask God for forgiveness. God told Moses to make a snake and put it on a pole and when someone was bitten they could look at it and live. As time went on though they twisted that. It changed from a single act of God, to an idol that people worshiped. In 2 Kings 18:4, Hezekiah, who did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, destroyed the bronze statue that God had commanded Moses to build. This was changed in the old testament by God not in the new testament through Jesus.
That is just one example of how people misinterpret Gods will. They take something God did once and turn them into fact, tradition and law, when in fact when He only intended it to be done once.
I believe that stoning is one of those times when the people God commanded took it too far. They thought if it worked once it will work again for other things too.
here is one example.
Leviticus 20:13 "'If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."
i just picked the fist example cause i clearly said God directed it. we see no where that it wasn't God directing it in these, but it's implied, and it's from the bible, so.
plus, if God directed it once, there's no reason the logic couldnt be extended to other rules like ive stated. if it's not wrong in one place, why is it wrong in other places?
Leviticus 19 states 16 “‘Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life. I am the Lord." 18 “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself." Even in the old testament before God told us the punishment he said love, and forgive.
Leviticus 20:1-27 does give you the sin and consequences put it says will be without children, will be cut off from those they love or will be put to death, it does not say how death shall occur other then 2 exceptions:
Now why would God say put to death in all of them but specify stoned in only one? Its simple, because stoning was not meant to be the punishment for everything. Just like I demonstrated in my first example, the people took something and over used it, they misinterpreted. So instead of being an effective punishment it became cruel and uncalled for. Going back to one of your original verses Matthew 15:3 "Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?" God commanded "put to death" the people made stoning a tradition.
I would like to refer you to John 8:3-11 where in an adulterous woman was brought before Jesus because the Pharisees waned to stone her. Now what did Jesus, who is the embodiment of God, do? He replied "let he without sin throw the first stone." Everyone went away and Jesus, who was completely sin free, said you are forgiven. Clearly stoning was not meant for every situation.
Therefore if someone was being wrongly stoned I would not have to participate or support it. I would still be able to see it as an act of vengeance and murder , not commanded by the Lord my God. Love your neighbour as yourself came before put to death, I would choose love.
i would tend to think jesus changed the law from stoning to not stoning. we have direct commands that people should be put to death. and then we have jesus saying something else? note, if i were to argue like con, id say it's just stoning that shouldn't happen. but the person in question could and perhaps should still be put to death. im jumping around on techncialities with that argument, but i don't believe it. i'm just arguing like con.
bottom line, the point is they should be put to death. would you do the deed and or support it? you'd almost have to if you say all that old testament stuff is true.
If I were a Christian living before Christ (in the old testament), following the commandments laid out for me by God I would not have to condone stoning, or participate in stoning.
The commandments (Leviticus 20:1-27) say put to death, except for in two, one where they say burn the other where they say stone. I don't believe God would say put to death in all then say stone in one if stoning was acceptable for everything.
Now if we look at your first verse Matthew 15:3-4 "Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, "Honor your father and mother" and "Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death."'
Jesus is supporting the the laws put in place by Moses. Then look at my verse John 8:3-11 Where Jesus does not stone the adulterous woman. Why? Because stoning was not meant for all circumstances. People took tradition and let it get way out of hand, as I pointed out in my first argument.
Now you are right in saying if we debated the fact that "If people disobeyed the commandments I would participate or support them being put to death". HOWEVER you specified stoning. I feel I have successfully proved that:
Thank you to Pro for the great debate, and thank you to the judges for taking the time to read and rate this debate.
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