The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
aceofelves
Con (against)
Winning
37 Points

bible contradiction

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/1/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,452 times Debate No: 2351
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (15)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

here is one example of the bible contradicting itself. it's not just a minor thing that could be a transcribing error as it's widespread, even within the same book such as samuel.

here is the fast way to look up the verses:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...

Saul committed suicide.
1 Samuel 31:4-6
Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it. So Saul died.

1 Chronicles 10:4
Then said Saul to his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.

Saul was killed by an Amalekite.
2 Samuel 1:8-10
And he [Saul] said unto me, Who art thou? And I answered him, I am an Amalekite. He said unto me again, Stand, I pray thee, upon me, and slay me. So I stood upon him, and slew him.

Saul was killed by the Philistines.
2 Samuel 21:12
The Philistines had slain Saul.

God killed him.
1 Chronicles 10:14
So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.
aceofelves

Con

Remember to enter every debate with an open mind.

The verses you provided all agree. I'll explain.

From what I gather from these verses, Saul fell on his sword and lay dying when a man came upon him and finished him off. The Philistines naturally took the credit for it. And Saul had been disobedient toward God and thus God brought about his destruction (through this event).

1 Samuel 31:4-6
Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it. So Saul died.
1 Chronicles 10:4
...So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.

These first two passages are obviously in agreement, as you seem to understand.
They both say Saul fell on his sword...

2 Samuel 1:8-10
...(An Amalekite) said to me, 'Come, stand over me and kill me; for convulsions have seized me, and yet my life still lingers.' So I stood over him, and killed him, for I knew that he could not live after he had fallen. I took the crown that was on his head and the armlet that was on his arm...

Saul apparently wasn't very good at committing suicide. He lay in great pain on his sword, and an enemy soldier came and finished him off and took his valuables.

2 Samuel 21:12
The Philistines had slain Saul.

Saul died during a battle with the Philistines, so they naturally took the credit for killing the king...

God killed him.
1 Chronicles 10:14
So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

Virtually from the start, Saul was a bad king. God had him replaced by a leader who would obey him, and then had brought about Saul's death in battle.

Does this seem to make sense now? I'm sure you'll admit that it is a very plausible explanation. I'm not an expert in the least, but I feel like this is an accurate interpretation. Yes?
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
aceofelves

Con

aceofelves forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
aceofelves

Con

aceofelves forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by JasonMc 9 years ago
JasonMc
I would describe myself as a theist-leaning agnostic, but I think you have a very good point Kleptin. There are endless ways one could interpret the Bible.
Posted by PreacherFred 9 years ago
PreacherFred
aceofelves....

Great job!
Posted by pazmusik 9 years ago
pazmusik
1 Corinth 14:33

Confused, yet?
Posted by solo 9 years ago
solo
In my honest opinion, you're side-stepping the issue and justifying it for yourself, which I can appreciate. I happen to see two different stories of the same incident. In my eyes, it is a direct contradiction and I'm not going to turn a blind eye towards it. But I respect your right to believe what you will.
Posted by Renzzy 9 years ago
Renzzy
Solo,

This "contradiction" is one of the more problematic for Christian apologists, but not totally unexplainable.

One explaintion is that Matthew writes more thematically, while Mark writes chronologically. If this was the case, then Matthew would have compressed the event to make a point of it. This, however, would not entirely explain the phrase "at once the fig tree withered", though.

The explaination I like is that the tree showed immediate sighns of withering, but did not wither completely until the next morning, when they found it was withered from the roots up and entirely dead. This would explain both verses well. When Jesus commands the tree to wither, it does, and when they find it the next morning, it is entirely dead.
Posted by solo 9 years ago
solo
The Withering Fig Tree discrepancy is my favorite Bible contradiction. *not voting*
Posted by collectivecow 9 years ago
collectivecow
I have to agree with Kleptin on this one.

The problem with this debate is the number of interpretations and definitions held between religious beliefs and Christian denominations.
Posted by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
As a fellow atheist, I find this to be a very poor thing to make a debate about. SAB has been responded to in its entirety by many sources which interpret the bible in various languages. Picking at a "contradiction" to a book that is so open to interpretation is a useless attempt to discredit it.
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