The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Losing
21 Points
The Contender
beem0r
Con (against)
Winning
45 Points

bible is more than likely infallible

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/5/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,123 times Debate No: 1368
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (29)
Votes (20)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

the outrageousness speaks for itself.

---When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

--Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

---Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the law says. And if they desire to learn anything, let thorn ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church."
I Cor 14:34.35

----"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion." Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB

-----Exodus 22:16, where we read "If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed, and lies with her, he shall give the marriage present for her, and make her his wife." But when we look at the verse immediately following, we get a whole different picture. In verse 17 we read, "If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equivalent to the marriage present for virgins."

--Kill Your Neighbors
(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

---2 Kings 2:23-24
"Elisha Is Jeered
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths."
Now, granted,they made fun of him. But c'mon. Plus, why doesn't this tstuff happen nowadays?

even if these are not the way things are done anymore, it still does not answer why it ever was, and by "God"'s command

now, it could be that some of these were necessary to counter a bad culture... like if a woman is shunned for being raped then marrying the rapist might be what's best for her. but, that sort or reasoning does not show why she had to shave her head, or could suddenly be okay to go back to society when the rapist treats her bad. more likely than not, these sorts of passages are just looking at her as if she's damaged goods that needs to marry because she's damaged, and be shamed.

more likely than not, the bible is not infallible.

plus here is more evidence in that regard... http://www.evilbible.com...

not saying it's necessarily fallible... but it appears to be the case.
beem0r

Con

My opponent, though she messed up the title, is arguing that the bible is more than likely fallible. A brief read of her argument and the comment section shows this.

I will show that this is in fact not the case. The bible is infallible.

First, I shall define some terms, since my opponent has failed to do so.

Fallible: Capable of making an error
Infallible: Incapable of making an error
Error: An act, assertion, or belief that unintentionally deviates from what is correct, right, or true.

Source: American heritage dictionary

All I must therefore do to show that the bible is in fact infallible is to show that it is incapable of unintentionally making an incorrect assertion.

First, though, I shall reply to my opponent's points.

First, my opponent cited a few rules in the bible she disagrees with. Fortunately, these viewpoints in these rules, while not held by many today, are still valid stances to have. A valid stance on a subjective issue cannot be an error, since there is no 'right' or 'wrong' stance.

Lastly, my opponent brings up that Elisha called a curse upon a group of youths who were making fun of him, causing some bears to maul 42 of them. God rewards us for our faith and our good works - he rewarded Elisha here by making some bears maul a crowd of misbehaving youths. Stuff like this doesn't happen nowadays because there is no one with the amount of divine favor Elisha had asking such things. We've allowed our faith to be shaken - the fact that my opponent has even started this debate is proof enough of that.

Now I shall unveil my first point as to why the bible is not infallible:

I.
The bible is a divinely-inspired work. Every word in the bible has God's approval. Even if something in the bible is factually incorrect, God intentionally allowed the words to be written as they are. If you read over the definition I gave of "error," you'll see that an error must be unintentional. There is intent behind every word of the bible. We just might not understand it. Sometimes God works in mysterious ways, and sometimes that means intentionally asserting something that is factually incorrect.

I have refuted my opponent's points and made one of my own. That's all for this round.
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
beem0r

Con

I see no reason to add to a case that hasn't been rebutted. It's unfortunate that my opponent has failed to respond.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
beem0r

Con

Once again, my opponent has not refuted my original argument. She's been online within 12 hours, so. Please don't make or take a debate if you're not going to debate.
Debate Round No. 3
29 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
Well, if it's too difficult for him to get it exactly right it's certainly too difficult for the rest of us :D
Posted by Novan_Leon 9 years ago
Novan_Leon
Too difficult as is? How inconsiderate of Him.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
You asked the wrong question. I don't want god to "measure to a level of pi." I want him to fix pi so that it is easy to measure to accurately :D.
Posted by Novan_Leon 9 years ago
Novan_Leon
The problem with you is that you're requiring God to conform to your idea of "perfection". Your idea of perfection seems to be a finely tuned precision instrument or computer program designed to run accurate calculations. Entirely symetrical shapes that can be calculated to the tenth level of pi. In the end, God doesn't think like you do, so you judge Him according to your own standard.

Nature isn't a precise environment. Men can't see in three dimensions with exact accuracy. Trees aren't exactly symmetrical. People tend to have slightly larger ears on one side of their head than the other. Heredity isn't 100% consistent across all progeny. I could go on and on. According to you, this makes all of existence flawed.

Let me ask you this: To what level of pi should God have men measure a circle in order to satisfy you? Isn't just 3.14 an approximation in and of itself? Wouldn't 3.141592653589793 be much more precise? Who are you to set the standard for what should be acceptable?
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
If God has a problem with "nitpicking" (and the phrase "all things are small before God" comes to mind), he can come here and tell me.

My problem is that flaws or inoptimal choices, however small, are incompatible with a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient being. The slightest "nit" in such a crazy story merits picking it apart, especially when there is zero evidence for it.
Posted by Novan_Leon 9 years ago
Novan_Leon
Instead of magically placing "centimeter" in people's heads in an effort to avoid any level approximation, He chose to let man write the text using the current standard of measurement, ie. the cubit. You seem to have a problem with this for some reason.

It sounds like you can't find anything better to prove your point so you're nitpicking.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
God was supposed to have created the mind in order for it to have a clue in the first place. If he can't place the concept "Centimeter" in people's heads, he's not exactly omnipotent :D
Posted by Novan_Leon 9 years ago
Novan_Leon
It's impossible because it was written by men in man's world. God can say that the circumference of a circle is 150.231 centimeters but if nobody has a clue what a centimeter is it wouldn't do anyone any good now would it?

Now you're just being silly.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
Without objectivity (e.g. everyone with sufficient information being able to reach a judgment on the matter using logic) morality means nothing. You do not "decide" what is moral for you to do, the facts of reality do, you simply discover it- or don't.
Posted by beem0r 9 years ago
beem0r
I don't see how it's immoral for God to approximate. Maybe he just likes approximating?
Also, you don't decide what's moral for god to do. He does. Just like we decide what's moral for us to do.
20 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
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