The Instigator
Joel_Asher
Pro (for)
Losing
19 Points
The Contender
Logical-Master
Con (against)
Winning
46 Points

bleach is one of the best animes I have ever seen, I believe it is better than fullmetal alchemist

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/13/2008 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,172 times Debate No: 1752
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (13)
Votes (15)

 

Joel_Asher

Pro

I used to be in love with fullmetal alchemist until bleach made an appearance. bleach gives a mixture of animes that everyone can enjoy, it especially gives a good amount of comedy crude and toned. The problem with fullmetal alchemist is they changed too much from the manga to the show and toned it down way too much. If fullmetal had kept its action, storyline and demeanor then it would probably give bleach some good competition. But that is not the case so fullmetal has fallen. Fullmetal has a alright storyline but the action sucks and the comedy is mediocre. Fights in the anime that should have happened or should have been shown disappointed a lot of fans. Bleach gives all of that. It is also not like dragonball z taking forever just to finsih one fight nor taking three days for one person to power up to the next level. Also bleach does not make it so the main character is the strongest in the universe.
I will find it interesting to see what someone has to say.
Actually I will find it interesting if anyone has anything to say at all becasue not too many people have open enough minds to get into other cultures besides their own. Or they just think cartoons are for kids. But whatever whose up for this?
Logical-Master

Con

Greetings. First, I would like to thank my opponent for extending this challenge to all debaters here. I personally have in interest in both of these animes, so debating them will be a pleasure. Now with formalities out of the way, let us proceed.

The resolution states that bleach is one of the best animes my opponent has ever seen and that he believes it is better than fullmetal alchemist. Since I'm unsure of what this topic means, I'm going to use this round entirely for cross examination. And given the fact that this debate will last four rounds, I believe that I will only need two or three of those rounds to dismantle my opponent's case.

Question #1: In this debate, are we discussing whether or not Bleach is superior to full metal alchemist, or is it my objective to prove that you don't believe Bleach is is inferior to Full Metal Alchemist?

Question #2: Are you suggesting that full metal alchemist is an anime that falls under the genre of action?

Question #3: Where is your evidence to suggest that not too many people have open enough minds to get into other cultures besides their own?

Question #4: At what point are you suggesting that full metal alchemist lost its action edge?

Question #5: Where is your evidence to suggest that most of the fans were upset over the fact that some fights that occurred in the manga didn't occur within the anime?

That is all.

IMPORTANT NOTE: For people who just SLIGHTLY skim over other people's cases, pay special note that I am using this round for cross examination. I realize that some of you would believe that my case is weak merely because there wasn't that much text in my first round, but I assure you that this isn't part of my case which I will present in round 2. This round is being used for clarification and nothing more.

As for people who don't know what we're debating about (although I'm not too sure why you'd click on this debate), wikipedia provides general information for both series.

Observe below:

Full Metal Alchemist: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Bleach: http://en.wikipedia.org...(manga)
Debate Round No. 1
Joel_Asher

Pro

I apologize for not making this clear enough for you and whoever might have thought this argument unclear.
So what I am asking is this, who believes that I am wrong when I say, Bleach is better than Fullmetal Alchemist? And then I move into explaining why I feel this way. Now the question comes up that is very interesting and it almost made me faulter but it was not strong enough to do so.
"Question #2: Are you suggesting that full metal alchemist is an anime that falls under the genre of action?"

When fullmetal came on it was under the action genre. So I have a question for you. Are you saying that Fullemtal aclhemist started a action anime and turned into a teary dreary drama? If that is the case, then i guess i withdrawl this competition seeings how bleach is all genres and fullmetal is drama.

But either way, bleach is still better for it has a better variety as well and very solid characters whith which you can connect to very easily. this time give me some points of views and leave the questions until after.
Thank you very much. :)
Logical-Master

Con

Alright, thanks. I've got what I need. Let us begin.

First, in response to my opponent's question, Full Metal Alchemist is a drama rather than an action anime (in fact, the manga is a drama as well).

My opponent suggest that unlike "Dragon Ball Z", Bleach doesn't suffer from the weakness of drawn out fights and a main character who is too powerful, but both of these assertions are false.

Drawn-out Fights: In the manga, the fight against the villain known as Syzayel takes 40 chapters to resolve. Given that 40 chapters can roughly be described as 20 episodes (since the current pace of the anime is roughly 2 manga chapters per episode), it will take 20 episodes to resolve. This is just 10 episodes shorter than the longest fight in dbz.

Main character being too powerful: Ichigo suffers from the problem you had with Goku in that he is made out as being too powerful. There are times when one questions why the other characters are even around since Ichigo is the only one to win in the fights that actually matter.. Ishida, Sado, and Orihime are not only regarded as being far weaker than Ichigo, but they serve as the losers in most of their fights.

Now I'm going to point out some other problems with Bleach:

Repeating ideas in the plot: After the into story arc, the leading female protagonist is kidnapped and the main character (Ichigo) sees it best to rescue her in a land which is supposedly impossible to get to (Soul Society). This is where the soul society arc begins. Well, after this arc is resolved, the next arc has the same premise in that the other leading female is kidnapped (Orihime), thus leading the main character to rescue her in a land that is supposedly impossible to get to (Hueco Mundo). Incidentally, the same kinds of supporting characters are introduced in both arcs.

My opponents only problem with Full Metal Alchemist is that there isn't enough action, but Full Metal Alchemist is more along the lines a philosophical drama than anything else. In short, my opponent may as well claim that the Spiderman was better than V for Vendetta simply because it had more action.

Basically, Bleach and Full Metal Alchemist are both good animes, but my opponents reasons for claiming that Bleach is better are not sufficient.
Debate Round No. 2
Joel_Asher

Pro

Well said, yet what you are saying is a drawn out fight is coinidentally not that long compared to dragon ball z. I am not referring to a fight between two characters with which one runs away and comes back another day, the fight between byakuya and ichigo has been the longest so far and that only lasted two episodes within the actual fight. As for fullmetal alchemist being a drama, well either way if you compare fullmetal alchemist the manga with bleach they are about the same so maybe the classification was not listed the way it was supposed to be considering the character outlining were just as bleaches repetitive style that you feel you have noticed. The character scar runs around with a little girl just as kenpachi zaraki does. Then you have al and armstrong and hawkeye who all at somepoint need to be saved as well. as for ichigo being the strongest that definitely is not the case when he gets his insides handed to him over and over again by people he could clearly beat if he were only more understanding of the power he could hold. yes some of the regular humans are weaker, that is because ichigo is not a regular human. this is already decided when his father shows his true colors. chad is only weak when they only portray his ability as something from nowhere until you find that it is amplified by hueco mundo and that he is part hollow hole. orihime could kill ichigo anytime anywhere if she were only like rukia and yoruchi and had the guts to do so. this proves chad could be a match and orihime is stronger. Bleach is a japanese anime which takes place in japan and fullmetal takes place in another world. but if it were to be in this world its parallel world is germany. Ths story to this is racism and trials and hardships. this is the teary dreary drama i was mentioning. bleach made no claims that it did not fulfill. If it starts on action saturday previewing actions scenes, it provides this. fullmetal does the same and provides bits and pieces and what could be called a quarter of a skirmish. Now i still love fullmetal alchemist but i wish the manga would have been the anime. as far as i have read in bleach, the manga does not differ that much from the anime. So i see that this has become pretty interesting and so far i respect your argument, plz give me more.
Logical-Master

Con

My opponent is incorrect on the conditions of "running away", as the fight with Syzayel is not a fight where anyone runs away. The fact of the matter is that it just drags on and on. Uryuu/Renji will make a good move in one chapter, and Syzayel will come back telling how he had planned for such a move in advance. And that basically just rinses and repeats for a tedious amount of time. Sure, there are some intervals during this battle, but then there are intervals during the Frieza fight as well.

As for the Ichigo and Byakuya fight, my opponent is wrong. Ichigo's fight against Kenpachi took 3 episodes to complete. The same applies for Ichigo and Byakuya's duel. If she is referring to how much animation concerns the actual fighting in the episodes, then he shouldn't have a problem with DBZ seeing as how the actual fighting was brief whereas the flashbacks, bragging about whose power level was higher, powering up, and staring at each other was what most of the Frieza episodes mostly boiled down to.

My opponent cites the Full Metal Alchemist manga, but since he is discussing animes here (which, unlike Bleach, the FMA manga and anime are two completely different stories), his comments on the FMA manga must be dismissed. These comments include what he states about Scar partnering up with a little girl (manga only) as well as Armstrong and Hawkeye requiring help (actually, even if when were discussing the FMA manga, this would be a faulty comparison as both Armstrong and Hawkeye have shown that they are more than capable of taking care of themselves without the assistance of Al or Ed).

As for Ichigo, I never suggested that he doesn't get defeated. He gets defeated multiple times throughout the series (no more than Goku). My point was that he is far too powerful in comparison to his allies. It is shown that his allies are pretty useless in that they end up losing most of their fights. In fact, during the Soul Society Arc, Ichigo managed to save Rukia with no thanks to the efforts of his allies (who were all captured do to their defeats). The same thing happens in the Hueco Mundo arc. Ishida, Renji, Rukia, and Sado all end up at the mercy of the main enemies whereas Ichigo rescues Orihime single handedly. Sure, Ichigo comes close to death a few times in both arcs, but he manages to make up for it in both by being the ultimate victor who doesn't need the help of his friends.

My opponent refers to Ichigo's allies as regular humans, but this is not the case as two of his allies are soul reapers, one of them is a quincy, and the other two are humans who are said to have unusual spiritual powers.

My opponent suggest that Chad/Sado becomes useful in the Hueco Mundo arc, but is highly misleading as Sado only manages to defeat low level enemies which his upgrades. He faces the 5th member of the Espada and loses instantly.

My opponent suggest that Orihime could kill Ichigo if she wanted to, but she has yet to show herself capable of doing anything more than healing wounds and reviving the dead. Besides, I was referring to her appearance in the Soul Society arc, as she just plays the role of a prisoner in the arc my opponent is talking about.

My opponent states that Bleach does its job in providing action. I would agree with this, but that's not the matter of contention. It is the job of Bleach to provide action and story. I've already shown problems with the story and I've shown the problems with the action that relate to the problems which my opponent disliked Dragon Ball Z because. As for Full Metal Alchemist, my opponent has failed to point out a single valid problem concerning the story. As for the action, as already suggested, Full Metal Alchemist main focus is not action, but story.

And with that said, I now stand ready for my opponent's final rebuttal.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
Joel_Asher

Pro

I guess this is pretty useless. My main thoughts on fullmetal alchemist is that they portrayed themselves as action at first and proved to be about story alone. So with that I was as well as many others disappointed about the lack of action. Although as I said I do love fullmetal and it does have a great story. I own all 14 Discs and have played 3 of the 4 playstation games. I hand this victory to you my opponent. I have yet to learn exactly how to compact my skills, this is the point of me joining this site. Thank you for the fun. But just a little add in, it was already stated that Orihime can create a shield in anyones body and make it expand. But the only problem is, is her hesitance to kill. Now on to the fact that I have not seen all of bleach nor read all of the manga for fullmetal or bleach, so I can no longer contest. If you have would you care to comment on where you were able to see them all?
Logical-Master

Con

My opponent requested where one could find Full Metal Alchemist anime / manga and Bleach manga. This free website contains every chapter of both series so far: http://www.onemanga.com...

As for anime, this free website contains every episode of Bleach: http://www.animeblogz.com...

Unfortunately, I do not know of a free website that provides Full Metal Alchemist episodes.

My opponent states that he hands this victory to me, thus a confession that he concedes to my arguments as well as my rebuttals to his. With that said, my opponent okays the extension of my round 3 arguments to this round.

Bottom line: Bleach and Full Metal Alchemist are two great animes, but when comparing the two, Full Metal Alchemist is nearly flawless with it's story and doesn't depend on action (especially since it's not an action focused anime) whereas Bleach depends on both action and story while making many errors in both departments. Thus, you should vote in negation of the resolution. With that said, I thank my opponent for participating in this debate and I thank the audience for reading.

Good night.
Debate Round No. 4
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
Do you rezd the manga?

I wonder. :D
Posted by Joel_Asher 8 years ago
Joel_Asher
naruto shippuden is killer, I like that way more than the first naruto, they should do a lot of animes like that.
Posted by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
leapy, I didn't know you were interested in anime. We should chat. Do you like Naruto?
Posted by olle15 9 years ago
olle15
Naruto Shippuuden destroys all!!!!
Posted by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
lol! Besides flashbacks being inserted every 10 seconds, that's exactly how it goes!
Posted by Yraelz 9 years ago
Yraelz
DBZ takes 4 episodes for Goku to reach his next power level. Those episodes looks something like this.

Goku: SEE MY TRUE STRENGTH!
Everyone else: ???
Enemy: Meh....
Goku: AGGGGHHHHH!!! (While turning varying shades of red)
Everyone else: THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!?!?
Enemy: What I should probably be doing at this point is beating the crap out of Goku while he is going to sit here for 4 episodes and scream his way in Super Saiyen 3, but instead I will just act uber surprised for the next x hours.
Goku: AGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Everyone else: Jaws dropped for the next couple hours.
Goku: AGGGGGHHHHHHH WAAAAAGGGHHHH UUUUUUUHHHHHHH OOOOGGGGGGG! AAGGGGGHHHHHHH! (Repeat about 100x times)
Posted by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
Yraelz: Ah, you're into anime too? We have alot of similar interest. :D That said, if you're going to watch Bleach, I recommend that you skip the Bount arc, as it's purely a bad filler arc.

Gao: I don't know about DBZ, but definately Naruto! As for Inuyash . . . meh.
Posted by Gao 9 years ago
Gao
Ummm. all i have to say is DBZ and Naruto kills both FMA and Bleach and Inuyasha removed their souls!
Posted by Yraelz 9 years ago
Yraelz
Full Metal Alchemist FTW! Speaking from the viewpoint of not having seen bleach at all. Something to put on my to do list.
Posted by Joel_Asher 9 years ago
Joel_Asher
yeah i love a lot of anime as well. i have not had the chance to get into death note or blood plus or trinity blood but i do love triple die.
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Vote Placed by Tatarize 7 years ago
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Joel_AsherLogical-MasterTied
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