The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
whyt3nn3rdy
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

can God make a rock so big he can't lift it? my answer is no.

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Post Voting Period
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It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/8/2012 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 967 times Debate No: 24178
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

dairygirl4u2c

Pro

in response to the classic paradox... can God make a rock so big that he cannot answer it? if you say yes he can make the rock... then he must be limited in that he can't lift it. if he can't make the rock... then he must be limited in that he can't make the rock.

the reason i say no.

this is akin to asking. can the unlimited limit itself? by definition it is unlimited, so the answer is no. then we approach the other end... is the fact that the unlimited being unable to limit itself, then a limitation on the unlimited? as a play on words only... the unlimited cannot contradict itself by limiting the unlimited.. it can't limit itself. it's a play on words, like, can a square be a circle? no, cause it's a square. our langauge is builty upon concepts that have limits... but we're not accustomed to concepts that don't have limits, or the "limits" on things that we might say are unlimtied. we're used to using limtied language to describe things, but it doesn't work right with the unlimited, as it's is contradictory to the natuire of the unlimited.
whyt3nn3rdy

Con

A paradox being a statement or doctrine seemingly in contradiction to the received belief, this question is technically impossible to answer, which makes it a lovely debate topic.

Now, the real objective here is to figure out what God can and cannot do.

Many beliefs have it that God is spiritual, and thus was able to create the physical. He created the universe is what it believed. So why, then, wouldn't he be able to create a rock massive enough that he could not lift? By faith, so many of the bible's story tell us that one is able to accomplish anything through it. For example, by faith, Moses parted the Red Sea, Enoch moved a mountain, Jesus walked on water, three friends of Daniel went into a furnace and survived, Jesus commanded a fig tree to wither and die. If by faith in God, these people could do such extraordinary things, why then could we not say that God could create such a rock. Wile Pro will probably rebut with "by faith, God could, then, lift any rock." However, as a bit of pre-clash, I have already posed the idea that God is spiritual, and not physical. God could not lift any object, because he is not physical. He could not touch the rock. However, he could create it.

With that, I hand it back over to Pro.
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

con says the question cannot be answered, then goes on to try to answer it. he also says God can't lift the rock... which would mean an unlimited omnipotent God can't do something. he may not have answered in purely abstract terms as i did... but talk about convuluted.

con says god is spiritual and can make the rock but not lift it, cause God is spiriual and the rock is physical. we'd have to assume that con mean not that the rock would have to be "so massive" than moreso that the rock had to exist, have mass etc, be physical.
as said though, con doesn't correct me or answer the paradox. even in con's example, God the unlimited is being limited in something, picking up the rock. also, con is assuming god can only abide by his relatively arbitrary conditions, spritual not physical etc. i suppose it's in a way a noble attempt to give some defintioin to such a nebulus topic, but really it's arbitary. some say Jesus is God, and if so, that means he can be physical. they talk about all of God being condensed into one, a paradox in itself. that means con's example doesn't mix with not being able to be physical.
-one of the biggest problems with con's example is that he assumes God can create rocks so big he can't lift them, yet that he's not in the business of rock lifting... if he's making a rock "too big" that means he's in the business of lifting rocks as it implies he could lift a certain size rock.

my answer is best because we're essentially saying just because God can't make the rock, ie can't limit the unlimited... doesn't mean it's actually an inhernet contradiction. it means that the unlimited is simply unlimited as definied. to act as if that were a true limitation, not being able to make a rock he cant lift, not being able to limit the unlimited, is a play on words.

we also might say that rock lifting is not in the nature of God, in trying to define these things. that way we can say that the inability to lift the rock is not a limitation. it'd be like asking for a square to be a circle, it's not in the nature of the squire to be a circle.
does this leave rock creating is in the nature of God? yes,,,, but it can't be a rock that's too big, cause that'd imply that God can lift rocks to begin with, which is a flaw con made.
we're trying to put physical attributes on God.

God is not in hte business of lifting rocks. he's in the business of creating rocks. and his limitation on lifting rocks isn't truly limiting the unlimited as some like to suggest.... but really simply recognizing hte reality of God and rocks, and avoiding tings that are self contradictory.... we live in a rational world.
whyt3nn3rdy

Con

whyt3nn3rdy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

dairygirl4u2c forfeited this round.
whyt3nn3rdy

Con

whyt3nn3rdy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by whyt3nn3rdy 4 years ago
whyt3nn3rdy
Unfortunately, I've been away from DDO due to the internet going down. I was absolutely unable to post any arguments. Is there any way we can make this a tie? I'm so sorry for that.
Posted by whyt3nn3rdy 4 years ago
whyt3nn3rdy
Please clean up your arguments. They honestly make no grammatical sense at all.
Posted by whyt3nn3rdy 4 years ago
whyt3nn3rdy
That was easily the most convoluted thing I've ever read. Therefore, I'll debate you, this could be a very interesting debate.
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