The Instigator
pranabesh_WB
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Jay-D
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points

can a quiz master turned author have a residence of above Rs. 3 crore in India?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Jay-D
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/25/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 688 times Debate No: 65774
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

pranabesh_WB

Con

In India, there is a political party named All India Trinomul Congress Party (AITC). one of the most famous person of that party is Derek O' Brayen. He is a famous quiz master of this country. Later, he joined the politics with AITC leader smt. Mamata Banerjee. Now, he filed his nomination on 2010-11 where it has been clearly written that other than rest of the wealth, he is having a Non Agricultural Land with following details:

ADDRESS: 158, PRINCE ANWAR SHAH ROAD KOLKATA
EQUIVALENT TO APPROX: 7922.24 SQ.FT.
Total Area 4800 SQ.FT.
Purchase Date 2007-07-25
Purchase Cost 32432818.00 (3 Crore+)

My question is is it really possible that asking questions can make you millionaire? See, me & you are getting nothing asking questions demanding answers.
So, Please debate.
Jay-D

Pro

I accept the challenge. I shall be taking the Pro side of the debate, arguing that it is indeed possible for a quizmaster-turned author, such as Derek O'Brien, to buy a plot of land worth Rs. 3 crore (INR 30 million, approx. USD 500,000).


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Opening Statements

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In modern-day India, it is very common for politicians to indulge in corrupt activities and amass huge amounts of wealth. Although the details (or even the validity) of these activites is not public knowledge, these men often engage in ostentatious displays of their ill-gained wealth, usually by purchasing expensive cars, apartments, or plots of land.

Therefore, the obvious question posed by my opponent, is whether Derek O'Brien has acquired his wealth purely by legal, and not corrupt means.



I postulate that yes, indeed, O'Brien's self-acquired land is completely clean of corruption.


Unlike what my opponent says, O'Brien is not just any man who asks questions, he was THE man who asked questions on what was perhaps India's most popular TV quiz show, which ran for decades.
Derek O'Brien was quizmaster on Qadbury Bournvita Quiz Contest (BQC), which called for students from all corners of India and piited them against each other in a battle of General Knowledge.

Sources:
http://colors.in.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...


Over the last two decades, O'Brien has been the main reason for the show's success. Today, he is more or less the top celebrity for school-going nerds in India. Such is Derek O'Brien's popularity that when BQC went off the air in 2007, social media erupted all over India in an effort to bring it back. And so, BQC resumed airing in 2011.

Therefore, in my opinion, it is really no big matter for the face of an extremely popular TV show to make 30 million Rupees over the course of more than a decade.


I eagerly await my opponent's response in round 2.
Debate Round No. 1
pranabesh_WB

Con

May Be challenger forgot the debate topic. Anyway, let me remind him simply the issue & the issue is Rs. 3 crores is such a smart amount which is never be earned by an govt. / PSU officer at the time of his/her retirement, if he/she works honestly. May be they earn 10-20% of that amount. May be lesser.

It shall also be reminded to my challenger that I've shared the value of his residence (valuation at the time of purchase) only. other than these, he is having some more wealth ( details can easily be seen at www.myneta.info). So, in this scenario, my topic is not also whoever has greater responsibility I mean Derek O Brayen is involved in QUIZIFYING INDIA or the govt. / PSU officer is building nation. My only topic is if asking question is so well paid business, then why the person who asks question in my area during durga puja, stays in a sub-ordinary house? thinking deeply, you can easily find both of their responsibilities same other than some show-off differences like standing in front of camera or having a smarter look than yesterday which can easily be bought.

In his nomination file he announced himself as quiz master turned author. I do not know what the renowned books he have written but i know some authors who have world renowned books & those books made them famous by name only,

I hope my friend now knows well the related topic. So, let's all look what my dear challenger friend reply properly.
Jay-D

Pro

I'd like to make it clear that I haven't forgotten the topic, that I'm fully aware of the issue at hand, and that there's nothing in my round 1 argument that might suggest otherwise. Therefore, I don't understand why my opponent chose to open his round 2 argument with a seemingly empty provocation.

Nevertheless, I stand by what I propounded, and I shall now provide further proof of the same, whilst simultaneously disproving the notions put forth by Con.

===================================================================

Rebuttals

===================================================================

(Note: quotes by Con are italicized and underlined)

the issue is Rs. 3 crores is such a smart amount which is never be earned by an govt. / PSU officer at the time of his/her retirement, if he/she works honestly. May be they earn 10-20% of that amount. May be lesser.

The land purchase worth Rs. 3 crores was completed in the year 2007, as disclosed officially by him.

http://myneta.info...

While it's true that such an amount cannot be earned by a government official, the fact remains that O'Brien's earnings as a politician did not account for much anyway. This is because Derek O'Brien did not join politics until 2004.


Before joining the All India Trinamool Congress (AITC), O'Brien was a highly successful quiz show host. He has been hosting the Bournvita Quiz Contest (BQC) since 1992.
Doing that over a course of 15 years is easily enough to make him Rs. 3 crores, I'm most certain of that.
http://en.wikipedia.org...



My only topic is if asking question is so well paid business, then why the person who asks question in my area during durga puja, stays in a sub-ordinary house?

That's because the person who asks questions in Con's "area" during Durga Puja (a religious festival),
does not ask the right questions,
does not ask them to the right people,
and probably doesn't have any talent for showmanship either.
I'd like to point out that this is a really outrageous proposition made by my opponent.


No one said that asking questions is a well-paying business. However, The BQC, when introduced, was one-of-its-kind in India, never seen before. That's why it became so popular. THAT is a well-paying business.

In case Con doesn't get it, there is such a thing as the novelty of a concept.

Derek O'Brien was the face of the first, and probably most popular TV quiz show in India, unlike the question-asker from Con's locality, who probably wasn't the first of anything at any point in his life. That's why he makes a lot of money, not because he simply asks questions.



thinking deeply, you can easily find both of their responsibilities same other than some show-off differences like standing in front of camera or having a smarter look than yesterday which can easily be bought.

So, basically, my opponent is postulating that television celebrities have no such thing as talent, and that anyone with money can become a TV star.

Well, Mr. Con, if expertise at show business can easily be bought, so can a plot of land worth Rs. 3 crores. What exactly is your point? That every rich guy can be a TV star?

It's like comparing Bill Gates to a common entrepreneur. Just because they both own their respective companies, it does not mean that the small-time businessman should make the same amount of money as Gates.



In his nomination file he announced himself as quiz master turned author. I do not know what the renowned books he have written...

Here's a summary of the books authored by Derek O'Brien:
http://www.derek.in...

They're all educational books, mostly pertaining to General Knowledge, and many of them are best-sellers in their category. So there's another source of significant income.



...i know some authors who have world renowned books & those books made them famous by name only

Sure, but in this case, O'Brien's books became popular because O'Brien himself was already famous as a quizmaster.
It was promptly announced by him in his nomination details, that he's a quizmaster first, and then an author, and not the other way around.

Therefore, it makes complete sense for his books to generate a good amount of revenue. My opponent's argument is thus rendered moot.




I believe I have successfully refuted all of my opponent's statements. I await Con's further arguments and rebuttals, if any, in Round 3.
Debate Round No. 2
pranabesh_WB

Con

in round 3, I'll neither "provoke" my opponent nor going show any eagerness to win the debate. Because, If after reading my this post, if my dear opponent friend think that I do not have ability to argue him, he can easily think so.

I'm not writing any essay like my opponent, I'll only try to show the path out of his statement only.

My opponent said in his earlier argument that Derek O' Brayen joined AITMC in 2007. he was the host famous quiz contests in India since 1992. also, he mention O' Brayen left that job on 2004. then joined AITMC then purchased that land on 2007. So, let me consider during his tenure of work, O' Brayen earned enough money to buy the residence of Rs. 3 crores.

So, me, Pranabesh Chakraborty, being a minimum 10th pass person (further qualifications are not needed to calculate the following) calculating that to achieve a property of Rs. 3 crores, a person who is working for 15 years ( the no. of years & the confusion, justification to assume his number of working years as 15 years, are given in next paragraph) have to save minimum Rs. 166666.67/- other than fooding, lodging, daily expenses etc. So, O' Brayen has saved more than Rs. 1.5 lakhs per months to buy this property. Now, 1992 means that year when Let me guess on the very first month of his career he had no expenses, only earned Rs. 166666.67 on the very first month. so, per day (assuming 31 days a month) Rs. 5376/-. So, in the year when India is burning in the fire of riots & inflation, My opponent want to say O' Brayen earned Rs. 5376/- Daily by hosting popular TV shows (I really can remember DD-1, DD-2 etc as TV channels only). Not only that, bournvita, the famous health drink of India, started conducting a quiz show where the host is getting paid Rs. 5376/- daily and these all are not my opinions, these all are my opponents opinions who referred internet over his mathematics & economics booklet. Let me remind him that, 1992 was that year when Mumbai riot happened, it's that year when FM of that time declared globalization due to economical crisis in India, khuda gawah, beta, deewana, viswatma, jigar etc. are those famous films where in 90% of songs has been sung by onlu kumar shanu. It's that year when the export value of basmati rice was Rs. 2,465.00/ quintal i.e. 1000 kg. (Ref: Directorate of Rice Development) My opponent friend want to say Mr. O' Brayen, by hosting the most famous & popular quiz show in India in 1992 saved minimum Rs. 5376/- so that he can buy a property of Rs. 3 crores in 2007.

Now, let me justify why I've assumed his number of working years as 15 years. My friend told in earlier confusing statement that he worked from 1992 to 2004. so, it can be 12 years. in the very next statement he wrote O' Brayen has a 15 years of career. So, not to let my friend more awkward I want to say him that 12<15, that's why the calculated values of O' Brayen' s earnings are lesser.

I want to thank my friend for writing so good, excellent, fabulous & big essay to enlighten me, It's my request to him that if he could exactly justify these points I've highlighted.

If he feels I'm provoking Then I'm sorry to inform him that I've just added details of his brief statement that O Brayen has earned more than Rs. 3 crores.

Last but not the least Mr. pro, Yes I do strongly believe that in India & specially in west Bengal, every rich person can be a TV star by regular happening soap shows, & art has no place here other than being GATE-PASS only. Anyway, that's a different issue & I can open another debate on this issue, but before that finish this debate first. Ok?
Jay-D

Pro

Certainly. By all means, let's finish this debate, Mr. Con. We have two more rounds to go after this one, though.

I would like to begin by prefacing that my opponent has failed to understand some really basic statements, and has also based a major portion of his argument on a premise that can only be viewed as absurd. Both these points, and more, shall be explained in detail in my upcoming rebuttals.

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Rebuttals

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My opponent said in his earlier argument that Derek O' Brayen joined AITMC in 2007.

WRONG. I've clearly stated the following in my round 2 argument:

....Derek O'Brien did not join politics until 2004
.


A source was also quoted for the same.
Given all the above, it doesn't take much to infer that Derek O'Brien joined the AITC in 2004, and not 2007. So, as it turns out, my opponent's very first assertion of this round is false.

----------------------

he was the host famous quiz contests in India since 1992. also, he mention O' Brayen left that job on 2004.

WRONG again. O'Brien never left the job in 2004. His show, the BQC, went off the air, in 2007 and NOT in 2004. I stated the following in round 1:

....BQC went off the air in 2007,..


I also stated the following in round 2:

He has been hosting the Bournvita Quiz Contest (BQC) since 1992.

Doing that over a course of 15 years...


Once again, it's all too simple to understand that O'Brien was involved with BQC from 1992 to 2007 (and not 2004), and also resumed working there once the show came back on air in 2011.

This is another transparently false assertion made by my opponent, and it's only his second argument of round 3. Not to mention that his first argument was also equally false.

----------------------

My friend told in earlier confusing statement that he worked from 1992 to 2004. so, it can be 12 years. in the very next statement he wrote O' Brayen has a 15 years of career.

There's no confusion whatsoever. Let me re-iterate my statements from round 2:

...Derek O'Brien did not join politics until 2004.
...He has been hosting the Bournvita Quiz Contest (BQC) since 1992.

Doing that over a course of 15 years...

As I've said earlier, it's far too easy to infer that O'Brien worked at BQC from 1992 to 2007, giving a total of 15 years. This has also been validated by my quoted source.
In the midst of his involvement with BQC, O'Brien joined politics in 2004.

I'm pretty sure that Con was the only one who was confused by that, but anyways, I've cleared it up now.

----------------------

I want to thank my friend for writing so good, excellent, fabulous & big essay to enlighten me, It's my request to him that if he could exactly justify these points I've highlighted.

Con is very welcome. However, what I wrote wasn't an essay. If my opponent would kindly refer to the format of an actual essay, he'd see that my argument is a far cry from being called one.

That's enough justification of my own statements. Now, I shall now expose the flaws in Con's mathematical explanation.

------------------------------------------------------------------

So, me, Pranabesh Chakraborty, being a minimum 10th pass person...
...calculating that to achieve a property of Rs. 3 crores, a person who is working for 15 years...
...O' Brayen has saved more than Rs. 1.5 lakhs per months to buy this property. Now, 1992 means that year when Let me guess on the very first month of his career he had no expenses, only earned Rs. 166666.67 on the very first month.

My opponent is forgetting one key factor here: PAY RAISE.

It is common knowledge that a person working anywhere, especially in television, gets regular pay raises. Therefore, O'Brien does not need to save Rs. 166,666.67 from the first month to the last, he simply needs to save an average of Rs. 166,666.67 per month.

Much of my opponent's mathematical explanation is predicated on the assumption that O'Brien makes the same amount of money every month for 15 years.
Well, it's quite wrong; but then again I wouldn't expect much more from "Pranabesh Chakraborty, being a minimum 10th pass person".

----------------------

....these all are my opponents opinions who referred internet over his mathematics & economics booklet.


Con is questioning my skill in mathematics. This, coming from someone who states that a person made the same amount of money every month for 15 years.

To extrapolate monthly earnings from expenditure at the end of a given time period, one must calculate backwards (from 2007) using the latest income, and not forwards by assuming an arbitary income (from 1992), as my opponent has done.

So, let's run the correct math.

Derek O'Brien had an income of Rs. 6,896,549 in the year 2010-11. That means Rs. 574,712 per month. It has been stated in his nomination file:
http://myneta.info...

Let's assume, that when BQC went off-air in 2007, his income was Rs. 500,000, which is quite generous, really. It can't have been under 550k. This means his yearly income was Rs. 6,000,000.

Taking into account a pay bump of 10% every year for a period of 15 years, his income in 1992 is given by:

(6,000,000)/1.1^15 = 1,436,352.
Hence, his annual income in 1992 was around Rs. 1.43 million, which gives a monthly income of about Rs. 119,700.

This is, once again, very reasonable for a TV personality in that year. Now, to calculate O'Brien's approximate total earnings in the 15-year period.

By applying a simple summation formula, we get:

Earnings = (1,436,352)*(1 + 1.1 + 1.1^2 + 1.1^3 + 1.1^4 +..... 1.1^15) = Rs. 35,949,729

This shows that O'Brien earned AT LEAST Rs. 35.9 million from BQC alone.
In addition to this, O'Brien has other sources of income, such as:

1) Dozens of books, many of which are best-sellers (source quoted in round 2)
2) Various other mini-quizzes, endorsements, and marketing campaigns by his firm "Derek O'Brien and Associates"
3) Additional income from his spouse, who is a successful doctor practising in Brooklyn, NY.


Going further to estimate these auxiliary earnings would be inaccurate, but a reasonable estimate would be no less than Rs. 70-100 million. I can justify the same if my opponent requests for it in the next round.

Taking all the above factors into account, we can safely postulate that Derek O'Brien made over Rs. 100-135 million in the 15 years between the start of his involvement with TV and the purchase of the plot of land, which is only about Rs. 36 million.

----------------------

1992 was that year when Mumbai riot happened, it's that year when FM of that time declared globalization due to economical crisis in India, khuda gawah, beta, deewana, viswatma, jigar etc. are those famous films where in 90% of songs has been sung by onlu kumar shanu....

Very emotional, but it's hardly relevant anymore, now that I've extrapolated O'Brien's minimum monthly earnings in 1992 (Rs. 119,000).

Con found it hard to believe that O'Brien made Rs. 5376 per day. As per my calculations (which are more accurate since they account for pay raise), O'Brien made less than Rs. 4000 per day (27% less than Con's figure), which is very believable.

----------------------

Last but not the least Mr. pro, Yes I do strongly believe that in India & specially in west Bengal, every rich person can be a TV star by regular happening soap shows...

Well, that may be the case in West Bengal, whose TV shows have little or no prestige whatsoever. The only TV shows of any discernible value that air in India are the ones that air in Mumbai, and perhaps Delhi. But, anyways, like my opponent said, that's a topic for another debate.

============================================

To summarize rounds 2 & 3:

- O'Brien hosted BQC from 1992 to 2007. He joined the political party known as AITC in 2004.

- Con has incorrectly quoted me on all 3 occasions in his round 3 argument.

- O'Brien made at least Rs. 35 million from hosting BQC alone, and a total of at least Rs. 100 million.
(A more realistic estimate would be 60 million from BQC and a total of over 200 million, but I've quoted the mimimum estimates so that there's no scope for doubt)

- Con has incorrectly calculated O'Brien's earnings by failing to take into account pay raises over a huge 15-year period.

- Con has not considered O'Brien's other sources of income.

============================================


Following my rebuttals, I believe there are no arguments made by my opponent that still stand valid. I await Con's next set of arguments in round 4.
Debate Round No. 3
pranabesh_WB

Con

pranabesh_WB forfeited this round.
Jay-D

Pro

Unfortunately, my opponent has forfeited his argument for round 4. Since he has not contacted me, I do not know the reason for his forfeiture, and will proceed further with my arguments.


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Arguments

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The entire debate so far has seen four major arguments:


1) A person who "asks questions" can’t become a multi-millionaire (by Con)


Con insinuated that Derek O'Brien is no more than a pseudo-celebrity, even going so far as to say that a common resident living in his block (quote: "the person who asks question in my area during durga puja") is essentially the same as O'Brien, but without any resources to get himself into show business.

Invalidation: When the Bournvita Quiz Contest (BQC) started airing on television with O'Brien as the quizmaster, it was a unique show, the likes of which had never been seen in India before. The novelty of an idea carries great value. It is the main reason for BQC's popularity, and it can certainly make O'Brien a multi-millionaire.

---------------------

2) A quizmaster who has authored books can't make much money from those books (by Con)


Con insinuated that authors who become famous by writing books, become famous in name only, and not in wealth.

Invalidation: This is false. J.K. Rowling has a net worth of over $1 billion. The world's most popular authors easily make tens of millions of dollars every year.

It's really no big deal for India's leading author in the quizzing/general knowledge genre to earn close to half a million dollars (INR 30 million) over the course of an entire decade.

I've mentioned half a million dollars because that also happens to be the approximate value of the plot of land purchased by O'Brien under question by Con.

---------------------

3) A television personality who began in 1992 can’t have made over Rs. 30 million in 15 years (by Con)


Con based this argument on the most basic of arithmetic calculation, by stating that O’Brien needs to make approx. Rs. 166,666 every month for 15 years, and that such a monthly pay was not possible in the year 1992

Invalidation: The monthly figure of Rs. 166,666 is the average monthly salary for 15 years, and not O’Brien’s initial earnings. Con also failed to factor in pay raises, of which there must be many, given that we’re looking at a 15-year period.

By extrapolating backwards from O’Brien’s earnings in 2010-11 (INR 574,000) with an assumption of his earnings in 2007 being INR 500,000 and a pay raise of 10% per year, his earnings in 1992 were calculated to be INR 119,000.

I then summated his earnings over a 15-year period and arrived at a figure of INR 35.94 million. However, I made a minor mistake in the calculation. The math is correct, but I multiplied it wrong.

The summation expression is:

Earnings = (1,436,352)*(1 + 1.1 + 1.1^2 + 1.1^3 + 1.1^4 +..... 1.1^15) = 1,436,352 * 35.94 = INR 51.62 million.

The number 35.94 is the result of the summation bracket (1 + 1.1 + 1.1^2 +…. 1.1^15), and not the entire expression. I forgot to multiply it by the initial earnings of 1.436 million. I’m extremely sorry for the mistake.

However, this is still a point in my favour, as O’Brien’s minimum earnings from BQC alone are INR 51.6 million, which is much higher than the initial estimate of 35.9 million.

---------------------

4) O’Brien has other sources of income (by Pro)

I pointed out in Round 3 that being a quizmaster at BQC is not Derek O’Brien’s only source of income. O’Brien has authored many informational books (source quoted in round 2), and although their sales information is not available to me, it is common knowledge that many of those volumes are best-sellers, and therefore must contribute a significant amount to his earnings.

The firm “Derek O’Brien & Associates”, of which O’Brien is the founder and CEO, hosts “The Brand Equity Quiz” which is India’s longest running corporate quiz show. In addition, they run many mini-quizzes and marketing campaigns not only in India, but also abroad. This results in another significant increase in O'Brien's income.

O’Brien is married to Dr. Tonuca Basu, MD, who practises in Brooklyn, NY. While her earnings may not be high enough to pool into something like an apartment or a plot of land, it’s certainly enough to finance other ordinary expenses i.e. it maximizes savings (intended especially for the purchase of land) from O’Brien’s primary sources of income.

Invalidation: None. Con has yet to counter this argument made by me.

=======================================================

My opponent has forfeited the current round, and I have refuted all his previous arguments.
Also, there are arguments made by me that still stand unchallenged.

Due to these factors, I have no need to post any new arguments or rebuttals in the current round. I extend my arguments to the final round and await my opponent's response on the same.

Debate Round No. 4
pranabesh_WB

Con

pranabesh_WB forfeited this round.
Jay-D

Pro

By forfeiting this final round as well, it would seem that my opponent has all but conceded the debate to me. I already gave a summary of all arguments in round 4. It is now time to conclude this debate.





=======================================================

Conclusion


=======================================================

- Con incorrectly estimated O'Brien's earnings in a given 15-year period using flawed math. As demonstrated by me in round 4, O'Brien's income from hosting BQC alone is over INR 50 million.

- Con failed to take O'Brien's alternate sources of income into account. As per my source quoted in round 2, O'Brien has published over 20 volumes.
Assuming an average sale of 3000 copies (a generously small figure, since many are best-sellers), and INR 200 per copy (generous again, since many of them are priced over INR 250), we get at least INR 12 million there itself.
A reasonable estimate would be no less than 25 million, taking 24 volumes selling an average of 5000 copies at INR 220.


- Taking into account the income from O'Brien's firm, we can say that his total income from 1992 to 2007 is, beyond any doubt, over INR 100 million.

- Since the plot of land in question is the biggest purchase he's ever made, spending 36 million on it from a total of over 100 million is not absurd at all.

- Arguments: All of Con's arguments have been refuted by me, and Con has also failed to convincingly refute my arguments.

- Spelling: From the start of the debate, Con has spelled "Derek O'Brien" wrong, using "Derek O' Brayen". A simple google search proves me right:
https://www.google.co.in...

- Sources: I have cited 5 different online sources in support of my argument (excluding the above google search), whereas Con has none.



=======================================================

I hope now there's no doubt, that Derek O'Brien, a quizmaster-turned-author, can have a residence of above Rs. 3 crore in India.

I thank my opponent for instigating this debate. I ask voters to take all arguments into account, and please Vote for Pro.
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by intellectuallyprimitive 2 years ago
intellectuallyprimitive
pranabesh_WBJay-DTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Sources to Pro and conduct to Pro because of a forfeiture from Con.