The Instigator
vyomesingh_genius
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
Protagoras
Pro (for)
Winning
26 Points

can india push for growth in spite of the rising inflation affecting most indians?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/5/2008 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 7,785 times Debate No: 4912
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (8)

 

vyomesingh_genius

Con

India is in a mess and it's growth rate is coming down significantly. due to rise in inflation the consumer demands have lowered down as emi climb up. MNC are finding crunch in their profit margin due to inflation. their is a hike in petrol prices. a normal indian is on the verge of just giving up the fight against inflation. companies have postponed their expansion plans due to inflation.

What do you call this growth?
Protagoras

Pro

Thank you vyomesingh for initiating this debate. Welcome to debate.org and good luck on any of your future ventures.

My opponent offers a topic that is in the format of a question. He is asking whether or not India can push for growth in spite of the rising inflation affecting most Indians.

To put this in a proper, debatable format, I am in support of the statement that reads:

"India can push for growth in spite of the rising inflation affecting most Indians"

Before I can continue this debate, I must define the evaluative term in the topic. The evaluative term is "can", this is because the topic is asking whether or not an agent can or cannot carry out an action.

Can: to be able to; have the ability, power, or skill to

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com...

In fairness, this is the first dictionary definition of the term "can", I use the first definition because definitions are in order of common usage, also, this definition is the most contextually relevant.

__________

Burden:

Now that we have established the definition of can I will offer my burden.

My burden [something I have to achieve in order to win the debate] is:
In terms of the topic, all I have to do is to show that India is capable of pushing for growth on an economic level, as pointed out by my opponent.

Conversely, my opponent's is to prove the opposite of this.
__________

Arguments:

"The economy of India, measured in USD exchange-rate terms, is the twelfth largest in the world, with a GDP of around $1 trillion (2008).[1] It recorded a GDP growth rate of 9.1% for the fiscal year 2007–2008 which makes it the second fastest big emerging economy, after China, in the world.[2] At this rate of sustained growth many economists forecast that India would, over the coming decades, have a more pronounced economic effect on the world stage."

With this said, there is in fact not only a possibility, but an extremely strong chance that India is capable of economic growth. Nonetheless, I still ask my opponent to cite his source, like for him to tell me where he found his information. If he does not provide me with a source, there is no way for either you nor I to ascertain the validity behind his points.

1: The Times of India

Indian economy, mkt lose trillion-dollar status
2 Jul 2008, 0338 hrs IST, Prabhakar Sinha & Shankar Raghuraman,TNN

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

2. "[http://online.wsj.com... India Defies Turmoil With Growth of 8.8%]", MarketWatch (May 31, 2007).

__________

Conclusion:

I have shown you evidence to prove the validity behind each of my points, I have clearly established my burden for the round, and have achieved. My opponent has done none none of these in virtue of winning nor in virtue of a sound debate, thus you vote PRO.

Thank you for your time and consideration,

- Protagoras of Abdera
Debate Round No. 1
vyomesingh_genius

Con

thank you for your points. my sources were from Hindustan times and the outlook magazine. as you mentioned that India's GDP growth is 9.5%. you are talking as an average for the last 5 years but if you see the recent GDP growth it has fallent to around 8%. in January the sensex was above 20,000 and every one was waiting it touch the golden 25K but since then it has fallen significantly to around 13,000.
and it would be a shock for you to know that this year's june have been the worst month for the sensex since 15 months and simultaneously the inflation has gone up to 12%! so there is the relationship between Inflation and growth.

Inflation has its effect on every one living or dealing with India.as the inflation is rising the interest rates of the banks are also rising and this is causing tremendous problems in Indian households. savings are being affecting of every one hence the demand is going down and this is resulting in the crunching of rofits margin of even Big MN C's. foreign investers are avoiding to
invest in India as their is no stability in the Indian markets. rise in inflation is also causing confusion in Indian markets.

the rise in prices is so much that even a Rs.5 Vada Pau, a popular food item in Mumbai, has jumped 30%!

the worst part is that 50% of indians do not even know what is Inflation
and hence they are not altering their lifestyle, which means that they are not investing their money and keeping them in their saves and soon the value of their money will decrease. government is also not sure till when they'll be able to control this inflation. and as elections are coming they will compromise growth to control Inflation. and even though they'll control inflation it would be too late and the damage would had been done.

thank you my friend and i am again stating my sources
1)Hindustan Times
2)Outlook magazine
3)the Economist

thank you looking forward to your side of debate
Protagoras

Pro

Sigh*

My opponent once again offers argument that may appear rhetorically appealing, yet there is no way for me to test there accuracy unless I know where they come from.

What I mean whenever I ask for a source is for an actual link, like
[http://www.debate.org...], I cannot look through every single article in the Hindustan Times in order to find where he got his information.

Please opponent, in your next round post where you got your information
(the actual website with a link), that way, I can understand its contextual relevance and be able to critique its validity.

Nonetheless, as of now, I cannot argue against what you have posted, all I can state is my position and that is, there is a possibility for India to push for economic growth.

I argue, as I have argued in the past, that India can at the very least, try to become more economical stable, despite whether or not they are doing well economically in the status quo.

This reminds me of the Great Depression era, when the US stock market crashed and the economy of nations all over the world become unstable.

If these people were to have just given up and said inflation and depreciation were impossible to overcome, then sure, maybe they would've made it, BUT all of the nations that were "depressed" took steps to "push for growth" and became economic giants.

History repeats itself my friends, and hopefully it shall repeat itself in India. But, to say that India doesn't have a chance would be a purely ignorant statement, thank you for allowing me to enlighten you and the rest of this debating community.

Be optimistic, nothing is impossible, I ensure you,

- Protagoras of Abdera
Debate Round No. 2
vyomesingh_genius

Con

source
http://groups.google.co.in...

The fact is Indian economy was always in bad shape. It never was what
was being projected in mainstream media: "the shining India", "the
knowledge superpower", "the toast of the emerging markets" and so on.
India was a sick economy and it continues to be one. The sickness was
hidden primarily because of the rise in stock markets, which were
driven less by fundamentals and more by excess liquidity in global
financial bazaars. When Mr. Greenspan slashed the interest rates after
the tech bubble burst to unsustainably low levels, he not only created
a housing bubble, he also created a bubble in emerging economies
around the world. A whole lot of money travelled out of the US towards
the new markets. India was a big beneficiery of that flow, simply
because of the misguided notion that India is another China, which it
is not. So the current weakness in Indian economy is not something
new; it is something latent.

In fact the weakness has been growing by leaps and bounds during past
two years.

After my last two articles regarding the impending fall in Indian gold
consumption, there has been a flurry of emails. Frankly I am surprised
by the response. I did not know so many people out there would be
interested in Indian gold consumption. Now I stand corrected.

Since it is difficult to give response to so many individuals, I would
try to address them openly. It is easy to do so since most of the
emails are loaded with common questions like "Wouldn't the agriculture
economy pick up soon?", "Why does Indian economy look suddenly so
bad?", and "Wouldn't the Indian stock market rise soon to its former
glory?" Many readers have shown concern that the fall in Indian buying
will downgrade the outlook for gold prices. Many think that the
reduction in Indian buying will result in gold hitting back $600
levels. Some have even wondered what would be the future of gold ETFs
in light of the waning gold imports. Let us look at some of these
apprehensions one by one.

1. "Wouldn't the Indian agriculture economy pick up soon?"

Most questions are about the state of rural Indian economy. "Wouldn't
the agriculture economy pick up soon?" "Wouldn't the farmers be able
to benefit from the rising agri-commodity prices and be able to buy
more gold?", "Wouldn't the boom in wheat, soyabean, and corn push the
farmers to visit the jewellery shops often?"

The answer unfortunately to all these questions is a clear NO. The
condition of the Indian agriculture is so bad that even a boom in the
commodity prices is not able to help the farmers. Even if the prices
are up, the grinding poverty forces most farmers to sell their crop
too soon, too cheap, thus barely allowing them to reap the real
benefits of the boom. More, even if they realise somewhat higher
prices, they also end up spending lot of extra money on costlier farm
inputs, thus keeping their profit levels more or less at the same
level.

The condition of the farmers will only improve when the agriculture
industry gets serious attention from the federal and state
governments. This is not happening. In spite of 70% Indian population
dependent on farming, the sector gets least attention from government
of any hue. Due to this the farmers don't have access to best seeds,
proper fertilisers and insecticides. Farmers travel for hundreds of
miles to get good quality seeds. Farm inputs are often in shortage;
current agriculture season has even seen farmers' agitations in many
places because of shortage of fertilisers. How the farmers will
prosper if their time goes arranging seeds, fertilisers and irrigation
water. It is this state of farming which has compelled thousands of
farmers to commit suicide. Goes without saying, farmers are unlikely
to be thinking about gold and gold jewellery.

2. "Why does Indian economy look suddenly so bad so suddenly?"

The fact is Indian economy was always in bad shape. It never was what
was being projected in mainstream media: "the shining India", "the
knowledge superpower", "the toast of the emerging markets" and so on.
India was a sick economy and it continues to be one. The sickness was
hidden primarily because of the rise in stock markets, which were
driven less by fundamentals and more by excess liquidity in global
financial bazaars. When Mr. Greenspan slashed the interest rates after
the tech bubble burst to unsustainably low levels, he not only created
a housing bubble, he also created a bubble in emerging economies
around the world. A whole lot of money travelled out of the US towards
the new markets. India was a big beneficiery of that flow, simply
because of the misguided notion that India is another China, which it
is not. So the current weakness in Indian economy is not something
new; it is something latent.

In fact the weakness has been growing by leaps and bounds during past
two years. The rise of crude oil price has eaten the Indian economy
hollow and has infact pushed the country back many notches on its
financial path. During past two years the cost of crude imports has
gone up from $40 billion to approx. $100 billion - an unaffordable
luxury for a poor nation like India. This escalation in the energy
bill itself amounts to about 6.5% of the country's GDP. (This
percentage is set to rise, given the fact that the GDP is declining
and the crude consumption is rising.) The situation is laughable; a
country whose total exports amounted to $155 billion last year is
likely to spend over $100-120 billion on the import of one single
commodity. If this parameter was to be the sole criteria of judgement,
India will emerge as the number one importer of crude oil in the
world, and would give more teeth to those who blame India and China
for the rise in the price of crude.

Worse, the country is not passing on this rise in the crude oil to the
consumers; they are being shielded because of vote bank politics.
(While the Indian crude basket has risen by 181 percent since April
2004, the retail prices of petrol have gone up just 29 percent until
the end of year 2007.) In other words, the government treasury goes on
taking it on its chin while the consumers are blessedly unaware about
the rising prices. As a result while on one hand the consumption
continues to grow unabated, on the other the country's finances
continue to take a hit below the belt. The balance sheet in fact is
already in the red due to the losses this country has taken on account
of fuel subsidies, and even if the crude price was to fall to a mere
$100/barrel with immediate effect, Indian economy would not be able to
recover from the wounds it has already received.

Of course, the danger is not just limited to the escalating crude oil
price. The growing fertiliser subsidies are burning another hole in
the pocket. The government imports urea at Rs 31,116/ton and sells it
for Rs 4,830/ton. DAP is imported at Rs 58,584 and sold for Rs
9,350/t. MOP is imported at Rs 35,563/ton and sold for Rs 4,455. The
amount of subsidy given by the government has been climbing steadily
over the years and today stands at a whopping Rs. 119,772 crores
estimated for 2008-09) - almost three times higher than the amount
doled out during the previous year.
Protagoras

Pro

Thank you for citing your source this time, but this isn't the article that you were referring to earlier, I'm not even sure if this is an article, but nonetheless it shall be refuted.

I am not sure who my opponent s refuting, me or random arguments. It is evident that my opponent simply copied and pasted some discussion board, unfortunately, through doing this, he failed to address a very important issue; The fact that even through all of this depression, India CAN push for growth.

My opponent never offers you a scenario in which it is impossible for India to PUSH for growth, voter, please refer back to my economic depression example, that is a scenario in which the US appeared to be irreversibly economically unstable, yet we eventually made some smart moves and got out of the situation, we fixed the problem.

Like I said earlier, history repeats itself, and hopefully it shall repeat itself in India. Thank you for this opportunity, hopefully you have learned how to not be so pessimistic. Please stay strong, be optimistic, nothing is impossible, I ensure you.

Regards,

- Protagoras of Abdera
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Rezzealaux 8 years ago
Rezzealaux
The more I see India debates, the more I want to create an Anti-India Kritik so I can slap you guys silly every time I see one of these.

Friggin'.
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