The Instigator
dairygirl4u2c
Pro (for)
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The Contender
G131994
Con (against)
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catholic church has never contradicted itself

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/29/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,096 times Debate No: 31854
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
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dairygirl4u2c

Pro

in this debate, i am not counting the issues of limbo, or "no salvation outside the catholic church".

you would think if the catholic church were not true, that it would have contradicted itself at some point in two thousand years.

the only things that count are statements that are authoritative, things that could be considerted "infallible". the pope, intentionally, teaches, the church, on faith and morals. that is the criteria. it includes many councils and other statements by popes.
G131994

Con

How about the world was created in seven days, well 6 the 7th was for rest. We all developed not from evolution but from Adam and eve in the garden of Eden ?.
Catholics pray repetitive words with Rosary Beads yet the bible says "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. Matthew 6:7

Bishops are celibate the bible says But the Holy Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth." 1 Timothy 4:1-3
Both examples show a clear contradiction to the bible.
Debate Round No. 1
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

Jesus said not to use repetitive prayers that have no heart involved, he didn't ban repetitive prayers. plus the issue of praying is one of practice, not doctrine. we are comparing doctrines here oover time.

the bible doesn't say forbidding marriage is wrong, just that some evil men will forbid marriage. plus this is more like practice and less like doctrine, too. popes were married for a long time, no one denies it, with sanction of the catholic church. also the catholic church allows people to eat meat and such, it's not the one teaching abstaining from foods that GOd has created.
there is merely a practice not doctrine of abstaining from meat during lent to respect typical jewish customs.
as far as fasting in genearl, even Jesus did that. so that can't count as a bad on catholic practice. etc anyways

i'm not sure your point about creation in seven days and adam an eve etc
G131994

Con

You say ""popes were married for a long time, no one denies it, with sanction of the catholic church"" yet they will not allow married men or those who are not celibate to become a priest surely a contradiction ?

"" I'm not sure your point about creation in seven days and Adam an eve"" well the bible the catholic holy book teaches these ""storeys"" and yet there is evidence beyond reasonable doubt that these stories are in fact a total load of lies. Most Catholics look to the church for moral guidance but cannot argue with the fact of evolution or creation, surly the fact the Catholics of the modern age no longer believe such events took place contradicts the traditional teaching of the church.

For you to say "" you would think if the catholic church were not true, that it would have contradicted itself at some point in two thousand years."" . Yes like when the previous pope said that ""the use of condoms does not prevent the spread of aids"" but because that has been there teaching"s it must be true . is a absurd position to take.
Debate Round No. 2
dairygirl4u2c

Pro

as i said, priestly marriage is one of practice not doctrine anyway. plus priests were allowed to marry, and then the church forbad it, so that the priest would be able to dedicate himself to the people, and to the churchs political world. anyway, it's not a contradiction to say we're gonig to not allow marriage so that we can improve the insittution of the priesthood. it's just trying to improve it, like urging people to praying more often. did the fact that they weren't being urged and now they are, a contradiction? no its just different approach. approach v contradiction.

i wasn't sure what your point was per the adam and eve etc stuff. the catholic church teaches that evolution is true this coincides with teh science. you might have a problem with certain fundamentalists who dont beleive in evolution, but not the catholic church. it never taught it was a false doctrine... at least you havent shown it and i havent see it.

where did a pope say the use of condoms doesn't prevent the spread of AIDS? you are paraphrasing to the point of distoriting and changing what they said, as far as i can tell. a citation or exact quote would be helpful.
G131994

Con

The exact quote was ""HIV/Aids is a tragedy that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which can even increase the problem"" and can be found at http://news.bbc.co.uk... again this is a false statement and was withdrawn by the following pope who also issued an apology clearly a contradiction between the two teachings.

Furthermore the church teaches people to respect and accept other people yet some of the churches most senior officials have been proven to have abused children. It may not be written in doctrine however the very people who live and die by the catholic teachings, who devote their lives to the catholic way of life abused innocent children. This abuse was carried out by the representatives of the church this is a clear contradiction with the catholic church between teachings and actions.

You state that the "" the catholic church teaches that evolution is true"" but they have not always taught that they used to teach the bibles version of events ie "" Adam and eve"" and ""creationism""
The debate is "" catholic church has never contradicted itself"" your statement clearly show a contradiction between the old ways of teaching and the new ways.
Clearly showing the catholic church has contradicted itself.

Thank you for the great debate.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 4 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
the obvious intentino of the thread is to compare papal and couniciliary teachings, not what could be said to be generally "catholic" in culture etc.
Posted by G131994 4 years ago
G131994
Also please read the quote he made no reference the marriage.
Posted by G131994 4 years ago
G131994
""con is now engaging in semantics to win the debate"" How is that engaging in semantics it is a valid point! You decided the debate. If you wanted it to be about catholic teaching then debate title should of read ""catholic teaching have never contradicted its self ""
But it reads ""catholic church has never contradicted itself"". A definition of the catholic church can be found at http://dictionary.reference.com...

Proving that my previously made point is valid and not just semantics as you suggest.
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 4 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
clearly when catholic and christians talk about abstinence they are talking about abstaining outside the context of marriage... this would significanly reduce AIDS.

con is now engaging in semantics to win the debate, as the obvious intentino of the thread is to compare papal and couniciliary teachings, not what could be said to be generally "catholic" in culture etc.
Posted by G131994 4 years ago
G131994
if everyone used abstinence guess what we wouldn't survive.

The debate is clearly 'the catholic church has never contradicted itself' not 'catholic teaching has never contradicted itself' because both catholic priests and catholic teachings are part of the church the actions of the priests are clearly a contradiction to teaching and therefore count as a contradiction within the church.
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 4 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
yes it is exactly what you posted, but as i suspected the article explains the context. abstinence is what he was comparing condom use with, per the quote in question.
you can't get a disease if you use abstinence (or are careful in a monogamous marriage
so literally condom use can actually be worse. it's not laughable of it's the truth. might be counterintuitive to our cultureal values, but that's it.

what priests say and do has nothign to do with official catholic teaching... as i stipulated, only papal quotes and counciliar statements count.. as these are the only things considered authorittative.
Posted by G131994 4 years ago
G131994
The debate is clearly the catholic church has never contradicted itself
The priests where as much a part of the catholic church as the teachings they taught so paedophile point is highly relevant.

Again in the bible the catholic holy book clearly teaches adam and eve with no evolution and creationism again I direct contradiction to what you say is the excepted version taught by the modern day version of the church.
I laugh at your response ""condoms can in fact increase the AIDS"" try telling that to someone who is dying because of the disease !!! also read link posted for full quote and find it is exactly what I posted.
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 4 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
just so it's clear my response.
yes using condoms can in fact increase the AIDS problem... if you measure it against abstinence or monogamy in marriage etc. id suppose you are taking the quote out of context. im sure the apology was more sorry for sending the wrong signals.

you yourself admit pedofiles are not part of teachings etc so it's kinda pointless to mention it.

there's a difference between widespread beleif and teaching. catholics might have believed in adam and eve with no evolution, and even that the earth was flat etc... that just shows they are people. teaching isn't implicated here though.
you haven't shown where they've taguht otherwise, or made a contradiction.
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