The Instigator
vi_spex
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
V5RED
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

cause and effect is logic

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/13/2015 Category: Science
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 740 times Debate No: 79698
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (48)
Votes (0)

 

vi_spex

Pro

poison=unhealthy

logical=dont eat poisonous things to stay healthy

bear fur=bear

logical=bear fur comes from a bear
V5RED

Con

When someone says poison is unhealthy, what they mean is that poison has the property of being able to diminish health when imbibed. Poison is not necessarily unhealthy. For example, if I lack the enzymes to convert a prodrug that's active metabolite is poisonous, then the poison is not, in fact, something that can cause me to have a diminishing of my health. If I have an excess or a highly active form of the enzyme that metabolizes a poison to an inactive form it may also not be deleterious to my health.

I think the logic you wanted was as follows:
In general, imbibing poisons can cause you to become unhealthy.
Becoming unhealthy is not desirable.
You should avoid that which is not desirable.
Therefore you should avoid imbibing poisons.

Bear fur is not, itself, a bear much like my pubic hair is not, itself, a human.

Cause and effect is not equivalent to logic. Inductive logic can derive information about causality, but it is not the case that this means that cause and effect is equivalent with logic. How, for example, can cause and effect be used to derive the law of noncontradiction or the law of identity?
Debate Round No. 1
vi_spex

Pro

poison is in contrast with the one getting poisoned, if an alien only lives from drinking battery acid, is it then illogical for me to feed it battery acid it to help it get healthy?

is battery acid healthy?

is poison healthy?

if you have a bear fur you have a dead bear, and if you have a bear fur i know it comes from a bear

the law of contradiction proves itself.. how could everything not be everything, or, why do we have different words if they all mean black?

cause and effect is not relevant to detect or define the law of non contradiction, but logic is absolute as well
V5RED

Con

You are meant to be arguing that cause and effect is identical with logic. Nothing you have said so far demonstrates or even implies that.

It might be illogical to feed the alien battery acid. For example, we live by eating food, but if you are bleeding out from a gunshot wound, it would be illogical for a doctor to feed you a sandwich at that moment.

Again, battery acid and poison are not healthy or unhealthy in that they are not identical with those categories. Drinking poison can cause you to be unhealthy. Healthy is a descriptor of the health status of a person. When we call things like salads healthy, we are playing fast and loose with language. Salads are foods that, when part of a diet, can assist one in becoming healthy, but the salad itself is not healthy.

Obtaining bear fur does not require the death of the bear. We can remove fur without killing an animal. If by fur you mean the fur plus the skin, we can still remove some of it without killing the animal.
Debate Round No. 2
vi_spex

Pro

you are con so you show me why, i have shown you 2 examples that are true and you have every cause and effect relation that exist at hand to disprove it, con

i have demonstrated it.. any true cause and effect relation is sufficient to define logic

so because it would be unhealthy to eat the sandwich when i am wounded becasue whatever, is it then logical to do it? why or why not

you dont necessarily get poisoned from drinking poison, but in that case it might not be poisonos, so poison is also in contrast with quantity

are apples poisonous?

food is healthy.. lol, how do you stay healthy without food, salat is food

the bear fur is still a dead bear even thou the bear is alive
V5RED

Con

You are claiming that logic and "cause and effect" are identical, not that "cause and effect" can be used for propositions in deductive logic. This is an absurd statement as I demonstrated by showing that "cause and effect" is irrelevant to the logical absolutes like noncontradiction and identity. The burden is on you to demonstrate that all logic is identical with cause and effect because that is a claim that you made.

As to your examples, I refuted every example you offered and you have yet to offer any counter to my refutations. I will not offer anything else until you can offer a coherent refutation of my refutation of the incorrect points you made such as "poison=unhealthy".

Until you post something worth responding to, I will be posting pass for further rounds because I already defeated everything you have posted and you keep reposting it in slightly different forms.
Debate Round No. 3
vi_spex

Pro

cause+effect=logic

i am saying cause and effect is logic

is it illogical that a stone is a stone?

absolutes are absolutes, logic is absolute, math is absolute, existence is absolute

absolutes=existence

any true cause and effect relation is sufficient to define logic.. cause and effect is cause and effect

you have not refuted anything.. in any way

is poison healthy?
V5RED

Con

You have still not justified your claim at all, and you have not even attempted to refute my arguments. You are being a broken record. I have nothing to add this round because you offered nothing new.
Debate Round No. 4
vi_spex

Pro

sure give up
V5RED

Con

Pro never offered a single argument to demonstrate the claim that cause and effect=logic
Every example pro offered was demonstrated to be fallacious and pro never offered any counter for the demonstrations of pro's fallacies.
Pro has done nothing to defend pro's position let alone win a debate.
Debate Round No. 5
48 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
because you have no arguments
Posted by V5RED 1 year ago
V5RED
Vi_spex, your last post here reminds me of the chess with a pidgeon meme.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
game over if your joystick dosnt work
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
thats right
Posted by Impartial 1 year ago
Impartial
I'm done.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
are apples unhealthy?

apple=food
Posted by Impartial 1 year ago
Impartial
I don't think you understand. If you think that apples are equal to healthy, as incoherent as that sounds, then healthy is equal to apples, which is even more incoherent. It's nonsense. Your x=y format does not work. You need to write intelligible sentences.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
but maybe all apples turned poisonous today for some reason
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
vi_spex
sure
Posted by Impartial 1 year ago
Impartial
So do you still think healthy = apple?
No votes have been placed for this debate.