The Instigator
Pro (for)
1 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
6 Points

cause and effect is plus and minus, plus is minus, and mins is plus

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/11/2014 Category: Science
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 506 times Debate No: 66842
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)




equal is where im holding my hand in front of me, plus is where i can move my hand to, and minus is how my hand got to where it is, and where ever my hand is, is equal. i equal because i can plus and minus

giving is taking, and taking is giving.

you cant give me an apple, without taking an apple from somewhere


I am CON.

PRO's assertion:

plus is where one can move his hand
minus is how the hand arrived at it's present location
plus IS minus and minus IS plus.
Equal is wherever the hand presently is.

PRO goes on to say that giving and taking are the same thing.

In the next round, I'll explain why these statements are little more than a fast and loose manipulation of the English language.
Debate Round No. 1


basically, you cant give me an apple, without taking one at least from your own stack, yes?

you cant move your arm forward, without moving it from where it was


PRO has said quite a bit with so few words, let's review:

"Cause and effect is plus and minus"

Plus: Having, receiving, or being in addition to what is anticipated.

Minus: to be diminished by, deprived of, or without.

Cause:something that brings about an effect or a result.

Effect:Something produced by an agent or cause.

While a cause may indeed bring forth an addition to a scenario, it could just as easily subtract, the same applying to an effect.

For example:
A man climbs a ladder to change a light bulb. The ladder slides out from under him, and he falls to the ground.
Nothing has been added into this scenario, and in fact, the cause was a subtraction, the effect of which was a nasty fall.

"plus and minus are the same"
Plus is an addition to something, and minus is a subtraction from something, they couldn't be more different.

Following PRO's line of thinking, this would also mean that cause and effect are also the same thing. A cause is the initial producer of an effect, while the effect is a consequence of the cause, while they are "symbiotic" in nature, they are anything but the same.

"giving is taking, and taking is giving."
While this is potentially true when discussing physical objects, such as apples, it is not necessarily true when discussing less tangible concepts.

For example, I could give a handshake without losing a handshake for someone else. By giving one man a handshake, I've not prevented myself from giving the same to someone else.

PRO again makes the mistake of thinking that because a consequence occurs, the action leading to that consequence are one in the same.

While the consequence of giving may result in taking, it does not make them one in the same regardless.

" plus is where i can move my hand to"
The potential location of any part of your body is not "plus", it is simply potential.

"minus is how my hand got to where it is"
Using electrical impulses traveling through his nervous system, PRO sent a command from his brain to his muscles, causing the effect of his hand moving to the desired location. This has nothing to do with minus.

"where ever my hand is, is equal"
Wherever one's hand is is it's present location, and in no way is "equal" in the sense of a mathematical formula.

"i equal because i can plus and minus"
Equal: of the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another; identical in mathematical value or logical denotation.

Although this fails grammatically, it is potentially true. One can reach balance by adding or subtracting, unfortunately, PRO does not use the true definitions of addition, subtraction, or equal, and therefor has not provided sufficient evidence for his case, as we have no idea what he's talking about.
Debate Round No. 2


lies are complicated by separation and true is simple now as one

any cause and effect example is sufficient, so complication is unnecessary

there are many causes and effects in the man who climbs a ladder example, and plus can not happen without minus, there are no causes without effects

the man adds his weight to the latter where as moving forward and subtracting from where he was in going forward up the latter and so on..

a simple example, I hold my finger up in front of me, and move it slightly, there, plus and minus is equal, you moved the finger and remember where you moved it to as you look at your finger


TrustmeImlying forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3


you agree?


TrustmeImlying forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4


PRO has provided no arguments the entire debate, and only demonstrates a failed grasp of the English language.

He simply replaces words and demands the new words hold the same meaning and value and expects everyone reading to apply these ramblings as not only truth, but some sort of revelation.

You, voter, may see that I have forfeited and penalize me if you wish, however I believe that my arguments from Round 2 were never challenged, and have extended without any resistance.

I ask instead that you vote based on the merit of our arguments and disregard my forfeits, as my words went uncontested by my opponent during his monologues.

Thanks for reading!
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by vi_spex 1 year ago
you cant move your arm forward, without moving it from where it IS*
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Valkrin 1 year ago
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Total points awarded:16 
Reasons for voting decision: Args, S/G and sources to Con. Con successfully disproved that cause and effect is plus and minus, and minus and plus are the same thing. Conduct to Pro due to Con forfeiting 2 rounds.