The Instigator
Brock757
Pro (for)
Losing
35 Points
The Contender
Mickeyrocks
Con (against)
Winning
75 Points

cell phones should be allowed in school

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 18 votes the winner is...
Mickeyrocks
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/12/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 11,965 times Debate No: 7364
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (18)

 

Brock757

Pro

I always wanted to debate this. I think it will be fun
Mickeyrocks

Con

I negate, "Cell phones should be allowed in school." The reasoning is as follows:

1. Schools are not democratic institutions or governments. They are institutions designed with a specific purpose (just like hospitals, the military etc) and thus they must fulfill those purposes. If a hospital gave patients more liberties but it hindered their ability to save lives, obviously we'd defer to what saves the most lives / what allows them to achieve their goal better. Actions that hinder their progress cannot be allowed, unless it violates their rights. Which leads me to...
2. The right to use a cell phone is not:
- A constitutionally guaranteed right. You have the right to own one, just not the right to use one on school grounds.
- A human right. Obviously.

From the previous two we conclude:

3. Since the USE of cell phones isn't a preordained right, their use can only be measured in whether it hinders the institutions ability to perform it's goal (to teach students.) If that is so, you automatically negate. Obviously from the previous two we draw that schools are empowered to disallow cell phone use, the debate is focused on whether that use is a hindrance or not.

So:

A)Cell phones hinder the ability to teach through distracting students by spreading communication. Just as if you're perusing the wonderful website debate.org during class, having sex with your girlfriend, playing basketball, or in some other way diverting your attention away from the designated task and towards and alternative your ability to intake information suffers. I do not see what I am not looking at; I only see what I'm focused on. By distracting students they hinder the ability to teach, thus schools are empowered to disallow their use.

B)Cell phones revolutionize cheating by adding a human element. Prewritten notes are only as good as the person writing them (i.e. the idiot who NEEDS to cheat.) Human communication allows smarter delinquents to cheat with the dumber ones, artificially inflating scores (so less help is allocated to the students who actually need it), and providing an escape route that means students don't need to actually learn the material. If you don't know where your problem areas are, your teachers don't know and your parents don't know then obviously you can't fix those problems; thus, you don't learn.
Debate Round No. 1
Brock757

Pro

Let me first show that you do have a right to use your cell phone. Say you bring in your new calculator into school. You are allowed to use it right. Same thing with cell phones Since you bought it you have the right to use it where ever you want just like that calculator.

So since I showed this my opponents contention 3 does not matter. because it must be both a right and must be hindering the institutions.

1. in an emergency a cell phone used by a student would be quicker then the school calling.
As you know there are a large number of students in a school. They can go everywhere. The faculty is a much smaller amount. So obvioulys if an emergency began to happen the students would know first. If they had their cell phone then they can call the authorities and have the problem dealt with.
Mickeyrocks

Con

He ignores my first and third point, only touching the 2nd (which I'll rebut in a sec.) and ignores both of my utility arguments; I'll get to the importance of this in a second, but basically because he hasn't addressed them you can assume he doesn't have an argument or that he agrees. These points stand as is, and this is going to be a major factor in the round.

On the Pro:

- First he gives us this analogy about calculators and decides this is adequate proof or something, but it really isn't. He doesn't tell us how the use of phones is a right, rather he tells us he can use his calculator in class. I'd assume he'd be using it in math class. Because it would assist his education. I maintain the use of cell phones is not a right, while ownership is. He gives no contrary evidence besides a flawed analogy. To strengthen the fact that it's not a right, I'll give you another analogy. The purpose of a theater is to present a play to an audience, at the point where using a camera with a flash would distract the actors and thus decrease their performance, the use of flash photography is prohibited. Nowhere in the Constitution, the Bible, The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants or whatever other document you use to determine where your rights are, does it say use of cell phones is a right.

Next, he gives us a point about "emergencies" but there are several flaws with this argument:

First:

Since he doesn't attack point one or three, and he illogically attempts to rebut point two, we can conclude that point 3 still stands:

"Since the USE of cell phones isn't a preordained right, their use can only be measured in whether it hinders the institutions ability to perform it's goal (to teach students.)"

He agrees we measure things in their ability for institutions to perform, and since I just refuted his flimsy argument against why it's not a preordained right we can assume that the aforementioned bit holds true. Because of that, we go to:

"schools are empowered to disallow cell phone use, THE DEBATE IS FOCUSED ON WHETHER THAT USE IS A HINDRANCE OR NOT." (can't bold, so I capitalized.)

At that point it being an asset in an emergency is IRRELEVANT (same thing) to the round, and so there is no benefit coming from the Pro, just the flimsy argument about point two.

Second: They aren't even an asset in an emergency. Schools have a telephone in every classroom and walkie-talkies between SRO and Administrative Disciplinary Staff not to mention that close to, if not every teacher has their own personal cell phone. So unless the emergency cut the phone lines, disabled radio frequencies and destroyed every teacher's phone then student's phones wouldn't even be USED, much less NEEDED.

Now, look to what I noted at the beginning of this: He ignores my two points, and so you can carry them through. What we're seeing is this round is the following:

1) The Pro agrees to the Con's argumentative framework on the whole, and doesn't adequately refute what he disagrees with, so the framework stands.
2) The Pro never links in to that framework, rather provides another flimsy point which has no relevance, but also no sense behind it.
3) The Con provides two clear links to the framework on how cell phone use hinders school progress, neither points that are refuted.

At this point in the debate, it is abundantly clear that the Con has one. I provide you with direct harms of affirming that are never addressed, whereas he only gives you a flimsy point that doesn't even present a benefit.
Debate Round No. 2
Brock757

Pro

First et me point out that debate says cell phones should be allowed in school. But today most cell phones have calculators in them so since they do the cell phones would not hinder them from learning. But in turn help them learn.

Because the debate is about cell phones should be allowed in school my points did help my argument. My opponent disagrees. Why because he knows it is relevant. the Debate is cell phone should be allowed in school not cell phone stop kids from learning. so my opponent is at fault not me.

I must argue why they should be allowed, and i shall.

1.
they help kids learn
lets take cheating. If they cheat with the phone they still learn. How you may ask. The kid that cheated now knows the answer. So he knows something he did not before. So now he has learned something new.

2.
Easier acces to internet
Paying for computers and internet for 1000 kids is not cheap. If they have a cell phone most have the ablitiy to go online. So in turn helping the school and its students.

so i have shown why they should be allowed in school. Remeber this debate was cell phone should be allowed in school not cell phone stop kids from learning(which is what m oppenent is trying to debate)

VOTE PRO
Mickeyrocks

Con

His rebuttal to my argumentative framework is by restating the resolution, the framework I give you simply provides us the means to evaluate arguments upholding or negating said resolution - he asserts we should take arguments as at-face points automatically linking in to the resolution, whereas I give you sound logical reasoning for why we only evaluate certain types of arguments. Mango juice being tasty, and cell phones falling into mango juice making it undrinkable is not a sufficient reason to negate the resolution, just as arguments that do not have impact to how a student learns are not sufficient reason to affirm or negate.

The calculator point can be dropped. Cell phones provide a rudimentary calculator and most, if not all schools provide calculators in math class that are 100x (not an overestimation) more advanced.

K, so there's four points floating about in the round.

1. Emergencies.

He fails to rebut my refutation to this point, so you can assume this point is dropped and no longer supports an affirmative ballot.

2. Distractions.

Same as before, this point was never addressed. Now since he never links into my framework, nor does he adequately refute it we're going to assume that framework still stands (otherwise we can't really evaluate this debate). At that point, this contention provides clear link to how cell phones hinder the ability to teach, and the negative (by advocating they should not be allowed) gives you direct benefits, while the affirmative never counters these points. At that point, the Con is winning quantitatively.

3. Cheating.

He attacks this point... but not with good reasoning. I say that they know the answer to the test, but their retention of answers that are not memorized but rather acquired via text message and then copied onto a sheet of paper is minimal, if any retention exists at all. Moreover, cheating provides no adequate means of fixing a student's problem areas, a point i outlined originally that was never addressed.

4. Easier access to internet.
1 - This doesn't link into the argumentative framework.
2 - Same logic as the calculator point; the internet on cell phones is rudimentary, providing no real benefit.
3 - Moreover if you can have a cell phone AND pay for internet access on that phone, the 9.95 for the first three months Vonage deal seems to be within your grasp.
4 - It distracts from school by providing another incentive not to pay attention, meaning that you teach kids better without phones because of this point.
5 - It encourages cheating, carry across the harms of cheating I outline earlier.

The Con presents 3 clear harms of cell phones, and how they impact to the framework of teaching students. The pro gives you 3 incoherent reasons that either do not impact or provide negative impacts to affirming. This debate having drawn to a close, I see no clear ballot accept a Con one.

Thanks.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by amp1276 6 years ago
amp1276
A few points this debate never seemed to touch. First of all it is the education system's responsibility to educate and prepare students to be a contributing member of society. It is not their responsibility to negate parent's rules. Many parents including myself require that their child carry their cell phone for safety and communication purposes, especially since many schools fall down on the job when it comes to providing sufficient supervision and alerting parents of schedule changes. More importantly because schools are supposed to be preparing students for work outside of school they should be incorporating proper use of technology in communication. Cell phones and smart phones have become an integral part of the modern business world in nearly every industry. I can't imagine a job requiring that I leave my phone at home. Students should be taught the appropriate way to handle communication technology, business etiquette when it applies to cell phone communication, and so forth. Simply cutting out a possible method of cheating is no different than banning paper for fear of cheat sheets and thereby inhibiting progression.
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
I don't remember their being anything in the "constitution" about cell phones and having a right or "kinda of a right" to use one or have one.
Posted by Mickeyrocks 8 years ago
Mickeyrocks
Can you not troll my debates and vote me down, rangersfootballclub? It's infantile.
Posted by rangersfootballclub 8 years ago
rangersfootballclub
well you kind of do , as there is no right allowing you to , there is no right saying you can't ...
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
Pro lost the debate when he said "you have a right to use a cell phone"
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
I remember when there were no cell phones, the world was a great place then. Cell phones are a luxury, a distraction and are more addictive than cigarettes. I have have literally seen teenagers break down into tears and convulsions after having their cell phone taken away.
Posted by goldenboot11 8 years ago
goldenboot11
I happen to own a cell phone myself, and I believe that they can be great tools used in the right place and the right time. I voted mostly for the con, because they definitely had more convincing arguments. If a cell phone hinders you from your hands on learning experience from someone like a teacher, it is not being used in the right place. As for getting answers from your cell phone, that is just a vain attempt to win the argument.
Posted by Mickeyrocks 8 years ago
Mickeyrocks
Good debate, Brock.
Posted by rangersfootballclub 8 years ago
rangersfootballclub
in my wee boys school , mobile phones are in a way allowed and not , ever considered the smartest way to do it is how his school does it ? they allow a pupil to bring in a phone , on the condition that the pupil does not use this phone while teaching is in progress , however they may feel free to use it during break peroids like lunch etc.
as for children cyber bullying , videoing fights etc the school jsut needs to deal with it indvivdually , because thats all that is required , as if there was hundreds of fights everyday and everybody was cyberbullying , then the school has a serioud problem on its hands anyway .
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