The Instigator
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7 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

chicken or egg- i argue the egg came first

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/7/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 297 times Debate No: 60120
Debate Rounds (3)
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answer: the egg.

science is inexact in listing what constitutes a species. if the animal meets criteria like two wings a beak two chicken legs etc, then it is a chicken. the problem is that this is an inexact science. it is sufficient for everyday use, sure. but a line has to be drawn. how do we draw it?

the lithmus test for whether the chicken or egg came first, should be that all chickens in existence now can breed with one last anscester in existence. this would be next to impossible as a practical matter to determine, but in principle, there came one ancester of chickens that is able to breed with at least one chicken in existence now.

the only other way is to make a criteria in DNA and stick to it. and this is not optimal given it's too precise for something we do not know how to be precise about. the above is best.... either they mate or they don't.
we run into a problem similar to someone trying to sell something. a man wants to sell his 57 chevy for ten thousand. would be take a penny less? sure. two pennies? you see where i'm going with this. the man must set a limit. 9500 and not a penny less? so someone were to offer him a penny less and he does take it, is it really a firm limit? in practice, the man might take it, but we all know a point must be drawn.

in practice, scientists might take a nucleotide or piece of DNA less, but a point must be drawn.

what constitutes a chicken then will have a firm limit. in the line of chicken like animals before a chicken, there will be close calls no doubt. but it will be one animal that will evetually fill the criteria, meet the DNA match's minimum or is able to breed. and that animal will be first an egg, which hatches into the chicken that meets the match.

the parents of that first chicken, would be chicken hybrids. because they are are able to breed with some chickens and the rest they breed with are not chickens.


Firstly you claim and discredit science as inexact, but then proceed to use the same science which you claimed "inexact" to proof your argument. Furthermore you speak as though simply because you discredit sciences definitions of what a species is that I should now take for granted your new definition of the term species. I think this is innately flawed as you are neither qualified (presumably) nor am I to challenge the Internationally accepted scientific definitions what basis do you provide the difference between two species?
Regardless, according to what is a globally accepted standard a single (or even a couple) of random mutations does not constitute for an entire change in species. Rather it is the same species so these hybrid chickens of which you talk will lay the eggs of its own species and not an entirely new one.
Debate Round No. 1


con misses that i said hte main distinguishment of whether something is a chicken is whether it can mate with a chicken in existence now. if we do the genetic analysis, it is regressive and a line must be drawn. same with whether a chicken can breed or not, it is in fact a firm line, and so no matter the parent chickens can breed with some chickens, they can't breed with chickens now in existence.
we have to draw a line otherwise the question of when chicken starts and stops will have no answer. and using whether they can breed or not s the least bit arbitrary method


Elder forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2




Elder forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
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Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: ff