The Instigator
Sedvodka
Con (against)
Losing
19 Points
The Contender
Yuanti
Pro (for)
Winning
34 Points

comunissium

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/21/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,638 times Debate No: 6605
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (14)
Votes (8)

 

Sedvodka

Con

while i believe that everyone has a right to their own opion, i do not belive that communism is an effective means to solve a soloution. look at russia. a long time ago, russia hit the craps. they turned to cummunism to fix their country. it did not work. in fact it made things worse! the rich did not want to give up their money, and the poor were not willing enough to work without pay especialy when food still costed money. the whole country failed, and infighting started. i understand the idea of communism, but it really isnt that hard to make money in the U.S. how do you think illegal aliens survive? people pay good money for others to do jobs that they dont want to do. and you really dont need any education to be a garbage man do you? or a schoolbus driver? they make good money, and dont even need to speak english!
Yuanti

Pro

I would be glad to participate in this debate Sedvodka,

I have not had the opportunity to debate a topic on this site, so I took the liberty at looking at the format of other debates to obtain an idea. With that in mind, let me define the term of Communism from the Oxford Dictionary.

Communism:

First, it is a noun. It also has two definitions. They are as follows:
1. a political and social system whereby all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.
2. a system of this kind derived from Marxism, practiced in China and formerly in the Soviet Union.

My first argument against your statements against communism is as follows:

Why does the failure of an ideology in one country imply that it will persist in being a failure (if established in other countries)? I do not think this is an appropriate stance to take, and I will give an analogy that hopefully will prove helpful:

I believe the use of currency is a more effective method for business (commerce).
In current day Zimbabwe the inflation rate is about 300% and therefore currency is useless (without value).
Therefore, the use of currency is not a more effective method for business.

There could be many confounding variables that lead to the social and economical problems seen in Russia today (and of course in the past). There are many problems in non-communist countries today, does this mean we should abandon those systems and accept communism? I would argue that there were benefits that came through Communism in the Soviet Union; this ideology Stalin industrialized the Soviet Union in 10 years - a record pace and I doubt it would have been possible without the Utilitarianism-based Ethics system that supports Communism.

My second argument is entirely without substance, but I find Communism in the Soviet Union attractive due to the schnazy Sickle and Hammer flag. Communism for our Future!

-Y
Debate Round No. 1
Sedvodka

Con

Sedvodka forfeited this round.
Yuanti

Pro

I will remain silent this round to give my opponent another opportunity to refute my points or level a damning claim against Communism.

-Y
Debate Round No. 2
Sedvodka

Con

i apologize for missing the second round. i was away for the weekend. yaunti you state an exellent case. but i still belive that communism is not the answer. the problem with communism is that it does not give one a chance to better themselves. plus, if you think about it, the world will fall apart! if you take away the difference between the rich and the poor, what will people aim for? kids want to be rich and successful. so they study hard, and work hard. if you take away the difference between the rich and the poor, you take away people's ambitions. would you work as hard as you could, for your whole life, for nothing more then a pat on the back and a goldstar? no you would not. face the facts. money motivates. an example. say you are offered work on a farm. you must sow seeds and take care of the farm animals. lets say you get paid 150$ A month. you work hard, but not to the best of your capacity. now lets say you get paid 500$ a month. now you work your fingers to the bone. you dont want to lose this job, and you do everything to the best of your ability. i now close my argument.

P.S. this is also my first debate and i would like to thank you for your time.
Yuanti

Pro

Glad to see your return Sedvodka!

<(||<) (>||)>

First, I must unfortunately point out that you have not addressed my first critique of your argument - namely that the fact that Communism has (according to you) failed in one country does not imply it will fail in another (and indeed fail completely).

As for my second argument, do you too find the Sickle and Hammer schnazy?

<(||<) (>||)>

You state that, "the problem with communism is that it does not give one a chance to better themselves...you take away the difference between the rich and the poor, what will people aim for?"

I believe that money is a motivator for doing what you do not enjoy doing (namely work). It does not follow though that money is the only motivator. Here is a list of the top 7 reasons why employees leave their jobs (1):

1. The job or workplace was not as expected
2. Mismatch between job and the person
3. Too little coaching and feedback
4. Too few growth and advancement opportunities
5. Feeling devalued and unrecognized
6. Stress from overwork and work-life imbalance
7. Loss of trust and confidence in senior leaders

I fail to see "lack of pay" as one of those. I do think Communism attests to one important feature of the working class: work we enjoy is work we'll do. For instance, I am a large fan of Excel spreadsheets. If I could spend my days in Excel and earn enough money to satisfy the needs of my family than what do I have to complain about? I love Excel, I love my family - my two chief loves(2) have been met. Senator Tom Coburn, another man who does what he loves, delivers babies in hospitals for free simply because he enjoys it (3).

In a Capitalist Society we advocate the love of money (and the desires it feeds) as a driving factor for our economy. What has this produced though?

- Poverty
- Starvation
- Murder
- Abuse/Wide-Scale Violence
- Class Division
- Racism
- Sex-ism
- Child Prostitution
- Slavery

The list can go on, I assure you. What have you claimed Communism has produced? Laziness. I will gladly take this character flaw over the atrocities mentioned above.

Communism for our Future!

-Y

1. http://www.leadershipconsulting.com...
2. I must note here that these are not my two chief loves but this closely resembles them.
3. http://thehill.com...
Debate Round No. 3
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by rougeagent21 7 years ago
rougeagent21
lol you spelled communism incorrectly
Posted by WhiteAfricanAmerican 7 years ago
WhiteAfricanAmerican
Pewpewpew says he supports communism, yet rails against the same philosophy on a different debate about Teachers being paid based on their ability to produce higher grading students.

That being said, what incentive does Communism provide for someone to excel, because the sad reality is that one employee who works hard than another, will not work harder if he is being paid the same as the lazy employee.
Posted by pewpewpew 7 years ago
pewpewpew
Well this political ideology sounds great, its just that the general public of the United States doesn't agree with Communism based on many stereotypes made on it. Mostly by the Ku Klux Klan. Of course these guys are just morons who are in such low social class so its easy to just ignore their accusations against this ideology. I support communism and socialism but it's hard to see the people of the United States accepting it. It's going to take a while and lots of education on it.
Posted by JP 7 years ago
JP
Ya, communism sounds great. Except for the part about losing our freedom.
Posted by NItEMArE129 8 years ago
NItEMArE129
No matter how good or bad communism is in a theory, the fact of the matter is that there has been no lasting communist government... ever.
Posted by Sedvodka 8 years ago
Sedvodka
P.S. i do indeed find the hammer and sickle "scnhzy." (apologies if my spelling is wrong.)b
Posted by Sedvodka 8 years ago
Sedvodka
well, yuanti, you win. exellent argument, and thanks for being so sportsman like.
Posted by Yuanti 8 years ago
Yuanti
Well, Excel Spreadsheets can produce (for all intensive purposes) an infinite amount of cells; so therefore it approaches an actual infinite.

Windows programs are almost immutable - everyone one is poorly put together and is annoying to deal with.

So, yes, Jesus is shockingly similar to Excel.
Posted by InquireTruth 8 years ago
InquireTruth
Does Jesus resemble Excel spreadsheets or Family?
Posted by Yuanti 8 years ago
Yuanti
Its a little unfair that I had the rebuttal. I feel that, in a debate format such as this, it definitely gives me an advantage. Thanks for debating Sedvodka! This was my first debate on debate.org and I hope to see you fighting the good fight against Socialism in the future! I find Communism's demand for Atheism to be one of the most damning claims against it - I was glad you didn't mention it.
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Vote Placed by rougeagent21 7 years ago
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