The Instigator
Avelvetnightmare
Pro (for)
The Contender
DefenderofBacon
Con (against)

could An Anarchist/ Communist revolution happen in the U.S.A and be successful?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/28/2017 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 499 times Debate No: 100399
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (0)

 

Avelvetnightmare

Pro

This debate is asking if a Radical left wing ideology (Such as Anarchism or Communism) could start a revolution in America and Succeed. Such as, have it Successfully overthrow the government. I will take the pro side. Here are there reasons why:

1. De-Pacified Populace

One the General populace turns off their TV's, puts down their iPhones, and stops listening to CNN and FOX, they will realize how much suffering there is in the world, because of America, and because of Capitalism. If people were able to see how many people America has exploited and how most of the world's poverty is their fault, then they will realize that systems such as Anarchism or Communism could solve a lot of the Injustice and extreme wealth inequality in the world.

Because of the level of globalization that has happened recently, America is now completely Bourgeoise, While Countries such as Indonesia, Malaysia, the Congo, and many other impoverished places. Are now all proletarians. They manufacture our goods, mine our natural resources, and are pretty much the reason why America is so rich and the rest of the world is so poor. A radical leftist movement could help equally distribute the world's wealth and help keep anyone from being ridiculously poor. What people like Karl Marx, Peter Kropotkin, Luigi Galleani, and Emma goldman said 150 years ago is just as relevant now.

2. Government/ Media lies and Revenge

Once again if people put down their screens, looked around them, and actually saw the world, they would realize how the government has used Mass Media and Capitalism to blind them from the suffering and Injustice in the world and keep them busy and pacified while the government does whatever they want. If the people realized this, they would be upset enough to overthrow the government and restart fairness to the world.

3. Population support

If EVERYONE in America stopped going to work, the country would collapse, if 75 percent stopped going to work, the country would collapse, if 50 percent stopped going to work, the country would collapse. If the U.S Military realized they've just been pawns to the government and world oligarchy, they could join the populace and overthrow the government, Creating an Anarchist or Communist/ Socialist society
DefenderofBacon

Con

I choose to accept this debate. If it is alright with Pro, I would prefer to argue just against Communism, as bringing Anarchism into the debate seems to just extend it. The first round for myself will be refuting why Pro said in the opening round and my second round will be my arguments against why it can't occur.


1. De-Pacified Populace.

To be honest, if someone were to put down their phone, they would know less of the outside world. Every once in a while when I am on the Internet, I will see ads that say "donate to save the refugees fleeing for their lives". When you click on that, it sends you to a website that talks about their plight and why they need the money. News stations such as CNN and FOX are used in order to tell the American people what is happening in other countries. How else would they figure out? Does the average citizen have to take a trip to a impoverished nation just to have their eyes open to the poor? Really? You are going to say that America is COMPLETELY bourgeoisie? According to npr.org, 50 million Americans are living in poverty (or poorer conditions). Sure, they definitely have it better off than other countries but that certainly doesn't make them the bourgeoisie. Can you prove to me that capitalism, specifically American capitalism, is the reason why the "rest of the world is poor"? Also, how could Karl Marx know the plights of the proletariats, when he himself was living a well off life (due to him marrying a fairly rich woman). It is stated that he never set foot in factory to see the working class. It is even stated that he was supported by his friend, Friedrich Engels, because he hardly worked (outside of journalism).

2. Government/Media lies and Revenge

Again, the media is the one bringing the suffering of others to their screens. If it wasn't for them, people would hardly donate to charity unless it is for a local cause or if it is for a church.

3. Population support

I do believe that the country would collapse if people stopped coming to work. However, this simply can't happen. Even with the great power of organization that social media has, it just couldn't happen. Too many people would wimp out the day they would "stop" going. They would realize that "this is a stupid idea and I need to support my family with this job". I will admit that the U.S. military has been used in some wrong places at the wrong time. However, calling them pawns seems to be an insult to what they actually do, which is protect our homeland from outside threats. So no, even if the populace was that organized, they would not join them. The top U.S. generals and strategists would know that if this "revolution" were to occur, it would leave America vulnerable to attacks from foreign enemies. They would not join in.

If there are any other points you would like to bring up, I would be more than willing to hear them. I will post my arguments in round two as to why a Communist revolution couldn't occur in the United States.


Debate Round No. 1
Avelvetnightmare

Pro

Thank you for accepting my Debate, also thank you for using good debate etiquette and being respectful. Also, I am ok with just Communism. Here are my reasons/Rebuttals.

When I said that America was basically the world's Bourgeoise, and places like South America, Africa, and parts of Asia are the Proletariats. I meant that we exploit them in the name of capitalism. Specifically American Capitalism, where all of the products sold by large corporations are made in poorer countries. We purposely did that because some of these countries do not have minimum wages, minimum working standards, and are willing to work long hours for very little money. If it were not for the level of globalization that has occurred over the last 100 years. America would still be like it was back in the 1890s to about world war I. When the Average yearly salary was under 500 dollars for the average american citizen, work shifts were usually 12 to 16 hours long, and if you were sick or couldn't complain, you were fired. Karl Marx may have not been a working class proletarian, but he was still observant enough to see how unfair and exploitative this system was. It's like Fidel Castro said "They talk about the failure of socialism but where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America?" This is completely relevant to today's world. If American citizens realize how they are just benefitting off of the slavery of others and are being pacified while less than 300 individuals control 51 percent of the worlds wealth. People think that Capitalism works when really they only see how it benefits their own lives. If Capitalism really awarded hard work, then many 3rd world citizens would be millionaires. If the general populace of America were to realize the full extent of this situation, an uprising of some sort would be inevitable, Probably a Communist uprising. You also claimed that the media was there to raise awareness about world issues such as world poverty, hunger, and wars. First of all, the U.S started most of it. (they CANNOT keep their noses in their own business) and second of all, if they really cared about world poverty, hunger, and international injustices and human rights violations, could't they do something about it themselves? I mean the U.S has meddled in so many intentional affairs its not even funny, to combat Communism in the 19th century, they supported many dictators and regimes that were much worse than the communism itself. For example they supported the Shah of Iran, Suharto, the revolutionary Junta of El salvador, and many others. They even deposed the Marxist leader of chile (who was democratically elected) and replaced him with a right wing dictator who was a puppet to the U.S's interests. Ever heard of Augusto Pinochet? That's him. If the United States actually cared at all about world poverty, they could stop supporting and instilling authoritarian dictators and extreme regimes in the name of "anti-communism" and aid those in need. Anyone who actually thinks any of the wars fought in by in the 20th century were about liberating people from communism don't have an accurate depiction of history. It was all about protecting their own interests. If the general populace de-pacified themselves and were aware of even half of the things the U.S has done and supported, a revolution would be inevitable
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Avelvetnightmare 1 year ago
Avelvetnightmare
While I agree with some aspects of countires like the USSR, Cuba, and Maoist china. (China isnt true communist anymore, theyre more like authoritarian capitalism with communist elements.) I personally prefer non-Authoritarian Communist societies such as Revolutionary Catalonia and the Ukranian free territory. (look them up) It is not the economic system that causes communism to fail, it is more the level of totalitarianism the governments rise to. Revolutionary catalonia was definitely an economically sucessful society, the only thing that caused it to fail was a lack of a solid military. So during the spanish Civil war, Franco's Army was able to defeat them.
Posted by CosmoJarvis 1 year ago
CosmoJarvis
While I do believe that there are great flaws in capitalism such as the exploitation of workers and the use of wealth to gain political power (such as Donald Trump), I believe that history, as Dirty-Morgs says, has shown us that communism is a failed system. Both Russia and China have used communism. Russia has ended up in financial ruin. The communist regime in China has turned China into a totalitarian state. Individuals' lives are being controlled. Innocent people such as the Falon Gong are currently being genocidally massacred, or put in jail.
I find that it would be better to keep a capitalist system in place, and strive to address the problems in capitalism rather than scrapping the existing economic structure entirely.
Posted by Avelvetnightmare 1 year ago
Avelvetnightmare
Alright, to Clarify the debate more. I will leave out Anarchism, Instead it will be if a Communist revolution could happen
Posted by DefenderofBacon 1 year ago
DefenderofBacon
Apparently, when I saved this debate earlier in the day, it didn't include my sources that I put it in. Oh well, I will just post them in the comment section. Sorry for the mistake.

Sources:

http://www.npr.org...

http://www.biography.com...

https://books.google.com...

Again, very sorry.
Posted by Avelvetnightmare 1 year ago
Avelvetnightmare
Btw I'm really not trying to be offensive, this is just my opinion
Posted by Avelvetnightmare 1 year ago
Avelvetnightmare
I respect your opinion, but the only reason the U.S.A is able to be as wealthy and prosperous as it is is because of the exploitation of others. We now live in a form of Globalized Capitalism where the poverty in the world is not visible to us, and it's our fault. Why dont YOU go and look at the world around you and study world history and realize that Capitalism has killed way more people than Communism, Socialism, and Anarchism. (I never said i agree with Fascism)
Posted by Dirty-Morgs 1 year ago
Dirty-Morgs
Man these are just guys who do not know history and are an insult to America and against all many have fought and died for also why don"t you get off this screen and earn your money and realize how the world works and how socialism communism and fascism has failed. sorry if this seems rude I do not mean it to I am just tired
Posted by Capitalistslave 1 year ago
Capitalistslave
I agree with pro on this issue. It is a good topic and so I shall follow this debate.
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