The Instigator
shakuntala
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
YaHey
Con (against)
Winning
23 Points

cunt is not a vulgar word

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
YaHey
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/31/2014 Category: Arts
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 999 times Debate No: 59812
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (5)

 

shakuntala

Pro

I ague that "cunt" is not a vulgar word
many have been disgusted with the use of "cunt" in this poem-
http://www.scribd.com...

Many claim that the word "cunt is vulgar
http://www.debate.org...
"cunt is a vulgar word
So if you disagree please tell us why "cunt is a vulgar word
YaHey

Con

There is something fundamental you have wrong, and that you often do wrong in your debates. You, not me, not anyone else, YOU have the burden of proof. This isn't up for debate, you have the burden of proof, you have to show that the word cunt is not a vulgar word. However, I will support the argument that cunt is a vulgar word.

You have not defined vulgar, so I will do this for you. Vulgar is defined as "indecent, obscene, lewd[1]". Indecent is the best word of the three, so indecent is defined as "offending against generally accepted standards of propriety or good taste[2]".

Before I begin, may I say that I do not think "cunt" is a morally bad word, but that it is only vulgar. Also, I would argue that a vagina, which is what "cunt" represents, is bad. Just like "dick" or "cock" is vulgar, but penis is not.

Now, cunt is a swear word. A swear word is an offensive word used often in times of anger. Swear words are thought as offensive against generally accepted standards of propriety or good taste, thus indecent, thus vulgar. So, our train of though is like this. Cunt=swear word=indecent=vulgar.

I can't wait to see how you spin this.

Sources:
1: http://dictionary.reference.com...
2: http://dictionary.reference.com...
Debate Round No. 1
shakuntala

Pro

con says
"You have not defined vulgar, so I will do this for you. Vulgar is defined as "indecent, obscene, lewd[1]". Indecent is the best word of the three, so indecent is defined as "offending against generally accepted STANDARDS of propriety or good taste[2]"

in fact your position is elitist by assuming that the standards of a particular group are the norm or should be the norm

my argument will come down to this
so we come to this WHOSE STANDARDS are offended and in WHICH country

point 1
Shakespeare would say
"a c*nt by any other name is still a c*nt"

point 2
you are only saying that cunt is vulgar based on the consensus of a group going against accepted standards of a group
but which group are you talking about UK US AUS
take in Australia
http://www.reddit.com...
"I think that really depends on where you are. In parts of the UK and, I think, Australia, "cunt" is basically seen as being amusingly friendly amongst your friends."
again
"If an Australian calls you "c*nt" he wants to be your friend"

again which historical period
point 3
http://www.slate.com...
" In Middle English the word could be used as a standard term for the female genitalia, in a manner that was quite matter-of-fact. The earliest instance of the word recorded in the Oxford English Dictionary is actually from the name of a 13th-century London street, Gropecuntelane. The name appears to have been quite literal, and there was at least one other red-light district of the same name, in Oxford. One of the next recorded uses of the word comes from a circa-1400 surgery manual and uses the word much like vagina might be used today: "In women the neck of the bladder is short, and is made fast to the c*nt." Others have noted that some people in the 13th and 14th centuries also had the word in their names

point 4
Why has cunt become so much more taboo
http://www.slate.com...
"Why has cunt become so much more taboo than, say, snatch or p*ssy? The main reason may simply be that it"s blunt. Linguists note that, unlike those other words for the female genitalia"whose origins are all Latinate, euphemistic, or diminutive"c*nt is plain and Anglo-Saxon. "

so we have arrive at different historical periods saw the word cunt differently and different countries see the word c*nt differently and different subroups see the word differently

So you say offending against accepted standards
I ask
standards -which group standard are you talking about
different subcultures have different views
http://www.reddit.com...
"But really the subcultures that do use that word in such a way are usually uneducated/poor/disenfranchised youths

this article states - "the majority of Australians have the same sensibilities as anyone else and don't use either d*ck or c*nt"" but this is wrong
as
stated above
" Australia, "c*nt" is basically seen as being amusingly friendly amongst your friends.""

so we come to this are you an Australian or British or American-"I think it's something that's rarely heard in many parts of the U.S,"

" At least playing games online if the word is ever used it seems to just bounce of fellow Australians but some of my American friends get quite shocked"

so we come to this WHOSE STANDARDS are offended and in WHICH country
the religious
the middle class the subculture
the under class
the working class

.so tell us
WHOSE STANDARDS are offended and in WHICH country
and
which of a particular groups standards are you saying should be the norm
YaHey

Con

My position is elitist? I listed a dictionary definition, but I apologize for that... I guess?

May I point out that you gave no reasons for why it isn't a vulgar word, and again, YOU HAVE THE ENTIRETY OF THE BURDEN OF PROOF. You always try and shrug it off, but it's YOURS. Also, your being elitist more than I by implying that only three cultures seem to exist: British, American, or Australian.

I wasn't being elitist, in fact, I said "generally accepted", so OBVIOUSLY THE MAJORITY.

Response to Point 1: You got some evidence for this bold assertion or am I going to have to take this on faith. If you're saying a vagina is equal to a c*nt, then you don't understand the concept of synonyms and how different words can mean the same thing but imply something else.

Response to Point 2: I was talking about the country of America, where I live. Nowhere did you imply that we are talking about Australia or England, so your objection is out of left field. I would also say that c*nt is still vulgar, even if it is a friendly term. I think an appropriate general rule is "Can you say this word on TV?" And, you CAN'T say c*nt on TV in England[1].

Response to Point 3: Uh, the historical period we are currently in? Like, is this even a necessary question? Words change to fit society, no matter what the original word would mean. In fact, all you have shown is that c*nt used to mean vagina and only vagina. Whoop-de-doo! A dick is a penis but it doesn't ONLY mean a penis.

Response to Point 4: All you show in point four in why it has become vulgar. Thanks for the concession.

I even went out of the way to say I don't think c*nt is a morally bad word. It is vulgar, not necessarily bad. Even if it is used in a friendly matter, doesn't make it not vulgar. If I friendly called you an a**hole, it would still be vulgar. Here's the logic: a**hole=swear word=indecent=vulgar.

Um, you're Australian's leading erotic poet, so please do the English language a favor and stop butchering it. Seriously, it is so hard to make out what you are saying.

So please, please, show why c*nt is not a vulgar word.

Also, may I point out that either DDO doesn't recognize c*nt as a word, or it is counted as a profanity. So, again, since I know it is so hard to understand ideas for you, c*nt=swear word=indecent=vulgar.

Sources:
[1] http://censorship.wikia.com...(UK)
Debate Round No. 2
shakuntala

Pro

con says
"My position is elitist? I listed a dictionary definition, but I apologize for that... I guess? "
you cant back step now you used that definition and I replied
so
1) tell us
WHOSE STANDARDS are offended and in WHICH country
and
which of a particular groups standards are you saying should be the norm
if you cant then you have not proved your position- and I must win

2) you ask me
"So please, please, show why c*nt is not a vulgar word"
the word 'cunt" was used in the poem referred to
http://www.scribd.com...

it is not used as a swear word
it obviously refers to the female genitalia
the female genitalia is not vulgar so the word referring to it cant be vulgar
in the context of the poem c*nt is described as a very beautiful thing-it is used in a very beauty way and context -so it cant be vulgar as that would be inconsistent with the poem itself
now you have to tell us why the word 'c*nt' is vulgar when it used to refer to the female genitalia and why it is vulgar when used in a very obvious beautiful way
YaHey

Con

Oh my god. What is even the point of debating you when you don't even read my response, or half of it. Either that, or you are being purposefully misleading, and I wouldn't put it past you.

1). I did tell you which standard. I said I live in America, so obviously I going off an American culture. However, I did show that even in England, c*nt is vulgar as it cannot be said on TV.

2) Yeah, you really don't understand what a cuss word is, do you? No matter if it is being, um, "beautifully" (the idea of CLD's poem being beautiful s laughable at best) used. Just like dick is a swear word, and penis is not. Dick is vulgar, and penis is not. Dick, even if referring to a penis, is a vulgar word. Do I have to show you the chart, again? Dick=swear word=indecent=vulgar.

3) Just because something is, er, "beautiful", does not make it not vulgar. C*nt=swear word=indecent=vulgar.

I see you didn't even try to correct your spelling and grammar.
Debate Round No. 3
shakuntala

Pro

con says
"3) Just because something is, er, "beautiful", does not make it not vulgar. C*nt=swear word=indecent=vulgar."

note
con says
"C*nt=swear word=indecent=vulgar." "
I told con that in the poem it is obvious that c*nt is not a swear word
I asked con
" to tell us why the word 'c*nt' is vulgar when it used to refer to the female genitalia and why it is vulgar when used in a very obvious beautiful way
con has not told us again
"'c*nt' is vulgar when it used to refer to the female genitalia and why it is vulgar when used in a very obvious beautiful way"

con says
"1). I did tell you which standard. I said I live in America, so obviously I going off an American culture. However, I did show that even in England, c*nt is vulgar as it cannot be said on TV. "

which America you talking about - so con are you telling us that American standards of decency should be the whole worlds
which America you talking about
the:
religious
middle class
working class
underclass
subculture

if you say the majority of Americans then a real lot of Americans and UK look at a lot of porn on the net -make them hypocrites dont you think if they object to the word c*nt

if con is refering to the majority of Americans
are these Americans part of your majority
http://newsfeed.time.com...
"In 2013, 12 percent of American adults reported to watching porn on the Internet, twice as many as reported doing so in 2006. 25 percent of men copped to watching porn, while only 8 percent of women admitted to it.

Those are pretty low numbers considering the ubiquity of the genre. Pew does note that its own numbers probably underestimate the real total of online porn-watching Americans due to a possible "reluctance to report the behavior among some adults."

not being aloud on TV means nothing as TV caters for the lower dumb nut just like DDO does they dont want hassells from idiots so they take the lowest dumb nut as a guide to standards -from all accounts a real lot of Americans and UK look at a lot of porn on the net -make them e hypocrites dont you think if they object to the word c*nt

when asked why c*nt is vulgar when it refers to a beautiful thing
all con says is

"C*nt=swear word=indecent=vulgar." "
but I have told con that the word c*nt is not used as a swear word in the poem
but again just tell us why when not used as a swear word
"'c*nt' is vulgar when it used to refer to the female genitalia and why it is vulgar when used in a very obvious beautiful way"

if you want then I must win the debate
YaHey

Con

You're so stupid. I'm going to lose conduct points for saying that, but someone had to tell you that.

It doesn't matter the context of how it is used, it is still a swear word. If you don't understand this then I don't know what to say. Here's a link to a list of swear words, and guess what? C*nt is on there. http://www.noswearing.com...
I did tell you, you just have a hard time with the English language.

There is only one United States of America. If you disagree, you're going to have to back that up. I said in the second round I was referring to the majority. As in, MORE THAN HALF OF THE PEOPLE. I also gave a general rule, that if it cannot be said on TV then it is a cuss word or vulgar. C*nt cannot be said, thus it is vulgar.

Okay you say something about porn, maybe? It is really hard to understand you when you butcher every sentence you type. Here's the thing. I never said the c*nt is a morally bad word. Is it a swear word? Yes. Is it vulgar? Yes. Does this make it wrong to use it? NO. But that's not what we are debating. Notice I said majority. I don't know if you know this, but 12 percent is not the majority. Let's test this out. 12 is smaller than 88. There. The majority of adults do not watch porn, thus your argument is invalid.

Um, what are you even saying here? In my sources I will leave you a guide on how to use punctuation. You object to me using TV as a general rule because "it caters to the lower dumb nut". I don't really think that is a proper rebuttal, so I will let you try again next round.

Here's a simple exercise. Is c*nt a swear word? Yes. Does context change this? No. Also, I didn't just say that. I also said that "beauty" doesn't change the fact that it's a swear word. But please, continue to misconstrue my arguments.

1. It was used as a swear word since it is a swear word.
2. Claiming something is beautiful does not change the fact that c*nt is a swear word.
3. If something is a swear word, then it is indecent, and thus it is vulgar.

Sources:
[1] http://www.wikihow.com...
Debate Round No. 4
shakuntala

Pro

This debate must be judged on objective criteria ie how one gives proof to ones claims even if you agree c*nt is a vulgar word you should not let your prejudices stop you from being objective

I must win this debate
as
1
1)I have backed up my claim that c*n is not a vulgar word by giving proof from other countries ie Australia and the UK where the word is taken very lightly not offending any one- in Australia it is seen as a word of friendship
2) I have argued that in the poem refered to the word is used to refer to a beautiful thing -and is not a swear word

con must lose as
1)he makes assertions that the majority of Americans see the word as vulgar
but he does not give us any proof
2) I asked him who this majority is
ie
which America you talking about
the:
religious
middle class
working class
underclass
subculture
he has not told us

so all con does is make assertions without any proof given
I make assertions and give proof
so on an objective evaluation of this debate i must win

OUT OF INTEREST
So who is this majority con says would regard c*nt as a vulgar word
I will do the work for him- this majority may just be this
http://www.medicaldaily.com...
A large number of Americans, mostly white evangelicals and those aged over 68, disapprove of watching porn.

on this point the reader might find it interesting - is that when it comes to condemning porn "[Americans]people"s moral beliefs may not always match up with their actions Also "Belle Knox told The New York Daily News that she believes "80 percent of the world"s traffic on the Internet is pornography."
http://www.medicaldaily.com...
"Why Americans Think It"s Wrong, But Still Watch It"
"However, a 2008 study on college campuses found that 87 percent of "emerging" adult men, between the ages of 18 and 26, and 31 percent of emerging adult women, had reported watching porn at some point. The same study found that 20 percent of young males watched porn every day or every other day.

What this means is that people"s moral beliefs may not always match up with their actions"

"Perhaps watching porn isn"t right or wrong, but it depends on whether porn stars do it based on their own free choices and for their own reasons. Belle Knox told The New York Daily News that she believes "80 percent of the world"s traffic on the Internet is pornography. And I think that probably every single person at some point in their life has watched pornography. So, I think it"s extremely hypocritical that the same society that consumes me is also condemning me.""
YaHey

Con

1) So only Australia, England, and America exist, eh? Nowhere did you specify this was about any one culture, so this point is void. You also do not properly reply to the TV argument other than "TV caters to the dumb".
2) C*NT IS A SWEAR WORD. YOU CAN NOT CHANGE THIS ON CONTEXT. IT. IS. A. CUSS. WORD.

1) I used the TV argument and the Swear Word argument. Also, note that the debate is about whether or not c*nt is a vulgar word overall, nowhere did you say we are talking about your poem, other than noting the use of the word c*nt was met with disgust.
2) Okay, honey, let me walk you through this. The majority means... more than half! Yes, it really is that simple. Those groups you listed are, wait for it, GROUPS AND NOT THE MAJORITY. Note, the majority of America are religious, in the middle class, and are in the working class.

Uh, this isn't a debate about porn? But yeah, definitely bring that up. Notice, we have the opinion of Belle Knox, Nothing objective, just this person's opinion. Actually, no this doesn't mean that people's moral beliefs may not meet their actions, it means that people's alledged moral beliefs do not always follow their actions. Notice, again, the majority disagrees with porn, but you haven't shown that those people still support porn or watch it. Not to mention, THIS ISN'T A DEBATE ABOUT PORN, but thanks for the waste of time.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by KhalifV 3 years ago
KhalifV
no
Posted by T_parkour 3 years ago
T_parkour
This ought to be interesting... Commenting to come back.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Bennett91 3 years ago
Bennett91
shakuntalaYaHeyTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro didn't meet BoP and actually proved cunt was vulgar with a source. Con's arguments weren't countered at all. I think Pro took his personal opinion of the word for granted and thought that everyone should agree with him; clearly this is not the case.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 3 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
shakuntalaYaHeyTied
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Total points awarded:16 
Reasons for voting decision: Con was a bit of a cunt. That said, Con decisively proved cunt is not commonly accepted and is thus vulgar.
Vote Placed by WLCJWC 3 years ago
WLCJWC
shakuntalaYaHeyTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct goes to Pro, as Con used sarcasm, insults and ad hominem attacks. Better spelling and grammar go to Pro, as Con wrote using street jargon, such as "yeah" throughout his posts. Pro was not much better, but a close call to Pro. Arguments to Pro--Con never responded adequately. Pro's sources were better
Vote Placed by Mr.Lincoln 3 years ago
Mr.Lincoln
shakuntalaYaHeyTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Of course "C**t" is a vulgar word
Vote Placed by Phoenix61397 3 years ago
Phoenix61397
shakuntalaYaHeyTied
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Total points awarded:16 
Reasons for voting decision: Con gave a better argument which was left unrefuted. Pro's grammar was awful. Pro offered more sources, but didn't really use them to his advantage. One source in the second round was brought up so he could refute it himself without any other sources...I'm not sure what that was about. Con's later round conduct was terrible but he was understandably upset, as pro refused to address his arguments. A fairly solid win for con.