The Instigator
MillerLife
Con (against)
Losing
5 Points
The Contender
asyetundefined
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points

current economics

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
asyetundefined
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/20/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,198 times Debate No: 7917
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (3)

 

MillerLife

Con

I believe are current economic ways are doomed to fail because they haven't been kept up to date. and instead of us getting richer and richer the us and the world are getting poor I believe I have a better way to this by making a new system of how are economics work
asyetundefined

Pro

Thanking for initiating this debate CON! It has much potential.

For CON to succeed in this debate he needs to provide argumentation for the following two premises:
(1) that the current Global economic climate is indeed completely and utterly doomed to fail, due primarily to the sub-premise: 'not being kept up to date'.
(2) CON's "new system of how economics work" given by CON himself must be properly formulated and stated.
CON has given himself quite the task.
------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly, on Premise (1) - the current Global climate is far to diverse for the claim that "it isn't up to date" to possibly succeed. The world isn't just one way. It is obviously true that due to globalization our world is economically linked and integrated - but this still does not even slightly suggest that what is economically true in India will also be true in Brazil, China, or America. I certainly concede the point that American economic downturn is probably due in part to overly-conservative economic models ('out of date' models) - but economics itself is far more diverse to say that it was the ONLY factor, or even a MAJOR factor. In truth some of the largest factors are probably the failure of the education system of America and also America's growing deficit, need I continue? Furthermore - if viewed on a larger scale, the recession faced by parts of the Globe is simply part of the economic cycle itself. The ups and downs are necessary for economic growth. Old and dead capital needs to be cleansed from the system through economic-downturn as to make room for the introduction of fresh new capital to grow on.
Premise (2), which to some degree relies upon the acceptance of premise (1), was not even given (just mentioned as being a premise of this argument) so not only do I not feel I need to refute it, but it is impossible to even discuss something that as-of-yet does not exist!
Anyways - I look forward to CON's response! This could, if taken properly, turn into a great argument.
Debate Round No. 1
MillerLife

Con

con has indeed gave him self quite the task
I say sorry to my opponent for not having good grammar, not that kind of guy
from my understanding of our economics they forgot one key ingredient. its when they decided to make money before a product or a new material or resource is found, and every new product or a new material or resource found after that has no value there has been no new money brought from it except for a new debt. if this isn't true why does the defecate get higher each year?
and yes I believe the global economy all works the same way. (made up) and horribly wrong

2) cons way: my way isn't finished yet I have thought about it over and over but its still not finished but here's what I have so far instead of everything working backwards every thing that comes into trade has to be given a set value from the basic (material) to the labor it takes to make the object. Then New debt free money would have to be made for that object to symbolizes its trade value. not backwards like we do it. Then I get confused on how it be held because if the object wasn't traded you wouldn't want the money in circulation, it be a debt.
so from there you would need a way to know if an object (trade value) was traded or not to put the money in circulation. then the only way there is to go is up not down, up, down
if my opponent wishes for me to try and enplane better ask me please
System that has to fail every once in a while isn't a good system and a system that leaves people poor and dieing from lack of food should be banished from are lives

I ask my opponent why he/she thanks are current economic ways are right when it can fail

and I say sorry this is my first debate I'm learning as I go also I have a full time job so I can only be on at late night. Hopefully I can fulfill my end of the debate to you.
asyetundefined

Pro

asyetundefined forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
MillerLife

Con

My belief in current economics is falling day by day :(
Nothing without geras should have to slow down or go backwards
asyetundefined

Pro

I quite respect CON's humility and patience! ~ being a humble trooper is the best way.
I apologize for forfeiting the previous round... It seems Uni - finals were a little more stressful than intended...

anyways.

I'm not sure what exactly is meant (that is, in relation to the whole argument) by the first bit of argumentation. Many countries create new capital (a perhaps slightly better term than 'money') in many different ways. But what you seem to be suggesting is that because few countries base their capital on the gold-standard that it somehow lacks value - and that this lack of value is then somehow transferred upon the goods of that same nation. I do not know what brings you to this claim, or quite how it plays a part in your greater argument. You are right that capital is no longer based on traditional schemes of 'value' (gold or silver standards), but this does NOT mean that capital is valueless. Capital is a social institution, it is through our recognition, acceptance, and usage of capital that society confers value unto it.
Furthermore the idea that contemporary system of capital is directly responsible for increases in deficit is quite the leap. deficits are brought about through a wide variety of possible reasons, for example: America's War in Iraq is the cause of a huge sum of debt - It has nothing to do with the way money is created, and everything to do with military expenditures.

I would also like to point out the danger of uttering the following:
"yes I believe the global economy all works the same way"
It is undeniably true that we live in a time of global communication, movement, trade, and general interdependence, the term is, after all: 'Globalization'. However although there is a 'global economy' there is NOT a 'global economic-system'. The global economy is a vast and dynamic entity, composed of widely varying schemes, methods, beliefs, goals, and resources; to say that the global economy all works the same way is to claim that what is economically viable in America is also economically viable in China. alas, the difficulties of the existential quantifier "ALL"...
but I digress...

In addition, although I would have loved to have heard CON's suggestion for a new economic model (it is verum-factum that some new economic scheme is desperately needed!), CON did not provide us with even a smidgen of such a schema to work with. Thus, all in all it seems that CON has failed to provide adequate backing or defense against the points I raised for either of the claims [(1) that the global economic system is a total failure, and (2), that CON has a better idea]. This should logically and sensibly bring us to the conclusion that CON's position is a failure. I wish CON the best of luck in debates to come, but this day is not his.
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by MillerLife 7 years ago
MillerLife
lol and i like your last post one person could not re design the whole worlds economic issue it take many but since this current way is the best i guess u have one. i have not failed im just not a genious,
Posted by MillerLife 7 years ago
MillerLife
yeah i have talked with some people about this isuue no one seems to get it. I just dont get why the world in our design how it has to have poor regions or people. i was look for a video online for you to watch but cant find it it was about banks and how "capital" was made if it whould you want it ?? it has me worried
Posted by MillerLife 7 years ago
MillerLife
its all cool
Posted by asyetundefined 7 years ago
asyetundefined
AH!! time be my greatest enemy! I apologize for missing the debate round... It's quite a busy season (thesis due date time).... Anyways.... The fight continues on to the next round!
Posted by MillerLife 7 years ago
MillerLife
thanks i will talke that in to account for next time
Posted by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
Which is a noble goal, indeed :D I think that's cool, but you'll get a better debate if you give your opponent something more to go on.

However, with that said, you got a fish to bite, and a competent one at that! Good luck, y'all!
Posted by MillerLife 7 years ago
MillerLife
and to tell u the truth there is no rsolution beside I might get to learn somethen new
Posted by MillerLife 7 years ago
MillerLife
ay im trying to learn here i dont know how to debate yet
Posted by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
I wouldn't ever feel comfortable accepting this debate without a clear topic to go off of.
Posted by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
What is the resolution?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by MillerLife 7 years ago
MillerLife
MillerLifeasyetundefinedTied
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Vote Placed by Sedylitz 7 years ago
Sedylitz
MillerLifeasyetundefinedTied
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Vote Placed by asyetundefined 7 years ago
asyetundefined
MillerLifeasyetundefinedTied
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