The Instigator
Con (against)
0 Points
The Contender
Pro (for)
4 Points

current state of feminism in first-world countries

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/15/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,607 times Debate No: 65218
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (1)




In the 21st century, in countries with a rather equal social status of people of any gender, race, religion or sexuality, such as America or the UK, feminism has been rendered obsolete. There is simply no major issue with gender equality in those countries, so feminists resort to hating on this dude's shirt ( or criticising woman characters in video games (gamergate). Note that there is an actual fight for gender equality going on in less fortunate countries, where a little girl can be shot in the head for defending her right to go to school, but instead of in any way helping, these "feminists" just make life that much annoying for everyone. I know that one doesn't cancel out the other, but let's be honest here, most of them don't really do anything to help.
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I look forward to debating this topic. Good luck to both of us, con.

I will be taking the "pro" position of this argument, "Feminism is not obsolete."

Feminism still has a large place in the parts of the world con mentioned. There are several issues that warrant the existence of the feminist movement. For example, the huge wage gap issue. Women are paid on average about 70% less than men doing the same job. In some areas the gap is smaller, in others larger. However, there are extremley few lines of work where pay is equal between sexes. Feminism activley works to bring this issue to light and work to give men and women equal pay for equal work. Another issue is what is commonly called "rape culture." Contrary to a certain conception, rape culture is NOT the assertion that men are all wired to rape women or that all heterosexual sex is rape. It is simply the widespread trivialization and sometimes even condonement of rape. Such examples include the popular phrase "she was asking for it" or the cultural view that men cannot be raped because of the belief that all men want to have sex all the time (More on that later.) These two things barley scratch the surface of misogyny in modern society. Does gender equality really exist in a society where this is the norm?
Next, I'd like to address con's critiscisms of feminism. The "feminist" backlash over a shirt depicting sexualized women was irrational and disgusting. Such body shaming goes against everything feminism stands for. However, this potrayal of feminism as the view of the entire movement is simply rediculous. This misrepresentation of a sincere movement that works for the good of men and women is foolish and counterproductive. Con also said something along the lines of "most [feminists] dont do anything to help." (sic) Feminism has and still does do much in the pursuit of gender equality. Since the advent of the feminist movement, more women have started to take elected office, the pay gap has lowered, and society's view is slowly but surley changing.

Lastly, I will assert my own claim: that feminism is in the best interest of women and men alike. For starters, the perception that only women may be feminists is false; our lot is as diverse as the day is long. I said before that a part of rape culture was denying that men could be raped. This is only one way a male dominated society harms men as well as women. Mem are denied custody of children under the grounds that women are superior caregivers. Men are mocked for doing housework. Men are shamed for displaying any "feminine" qualities. Feminism would eliminate these problems plaguing men. In light of all these facts, can it really be said that feminism is obsolete? If the state of feminism is so bad, as con claims, why not become a feminist yourself so you can do what others fail to?
Debate Round No. 1


Hello, Pro, and thank you for accepting my topic.
I see your points about the differences in wages and "rape culture", and mostly agree, but my point still stands: feminism, in its current state, is obsolete.

For starters, let's look at the wage issue. There is one major difference in paying wages to a man and a woman - the possibility of the latter getting pregnant. That means that, for at least half a year (the last trimester and newborn care) the woman is unable to work, and stays home with her child, while still getting her wages. And, if the goal of the employer is to maximize profits, that is an issue and can lead to losses. So, the option of the employer is either to not employ women (an even bigger inequality) or pay a smaller wage than to male employees. This is not a question of sexism and disrespect towards women. It is a question of economics. While this is obviously unfair, it is, by far, the most efficient solution.

I cannot say much about the rape issue, and mostly agree with you. Good point, pro.

Also, I would like to defend my representation of feminism. While the shirt issue might not be what feminism stands for, things like this is what feminism is known for in modern countries, and the most common association that people have with the word "feminism" is "angry women that dress up like vaginas" ( I know that this is wrong, and is a misrepresentation, but that's mostly what happens. The FEMEN movement is a textbook example. And let's not forget P***y Riot, the girls who danced in balaclavas in the main temple of Russia. They claimed what they did was "a social protest for equality". The feminist movement itself is noble, and has a good goal, but how they choose to portray themselves in public just shows what they are truly like. In a recent TIME vote over which word should be banned in 2015, the word "feminism" takes the cake, which just shows how tired people are of the condition of it in today's society.

And, lastly, in the tangled mess of customs, standards, traditions and social rules in the society that is, women, while they may not know it, have more privileges than men. For example, in Russia (I'm Russian myself, that's why I refer to it more), all men over 18 are conscripted to the army, while women are not, which doesn't mean they are not free to join. People tend to trust women more and most civilized men are raised with a notion that all men and women should be treated and respected equally. The court issue is, too, an example. This is, too, an inequality that feminism claims to fight for, but lately feminist are just concerned with women's rights, and some even want to diminish the rights of men.


If what con stated is true, then that only affirms feminism's necessity. Feminism, as I stated before, is the belief that men and women should be equal. If, as pro stated, women have more priviledges than men, then feminism still needs to exist to combat these injustices. Pro also stated that some feminists do not care about this, and some even want to diminish the rights of men. This is true. I have encountered many feminists with slogans such as "KILL ALL MEN!" or "SEX = RAPE!" In this, my opponent is not a lair by any standards. However, these feminists are simply a small nuisance: a very vocal and very small minority. To liken all feminists to these radical misogynists (I use the term on them because of their nasty habit to ignore other women who disagree with them, and sometimes downright contribute to rape culture.) is a strawman point that I am convicted that every rational person is above, con included. However, while I do believe women have some priviledges men don't, women are still less fortunate in society than men.
If may address con's first rebuttal. That the wage gap is because of women's collective bad habit of getting knocked up. This does NOT excuse an employer paying all female employees less. Firstly, not all women get pregnant. Just because they can is no excuse to cut their pay. Next, what happens when they actually get pregnant? Well, unlike what con said, they don't miss work for 9 months. Women can still work far into pregnancy in most fields. Next, when they actually get to the point where they can't work, their job just isn't left to get neglected while they get paid for doing nothing. Their pay is cut while on leave, and a temporary employee is hired on a reduced salary (Usually the rest of what the mother would get paid) to work until the now proud mom is ready to work again. I also feel the need to note that even with this practice, women are still paid less. I respectfully assert, pro, this pay gap is NOT justified. The "problem" has a simple solution which is being ignored in favor of a misogynist and, to be perfectly honest, lazy one.
Lastly, I'll deal with con's point that women have more privileges than men. Before I state them, I must clarify one thing: Male privilege is not contraband. You are not a bigot for having privileges. The only reason privileges are at all a problem is because many people don't have them. Men have the privilege to not be considered deviant for persuing a life goal outside of raising a family. Men have the privilege to not be as worried about being raped as women. Men have the privilege of being potrayed in a candid, non-sexualized way in most media. Men have the privilege not to be marginalized or tokenized in any setting. There are many more privileges that are a huge problem in society, but these few are sufficient to serve my point. But we could argue all day about who oppressed who, about who has more privileges, about who's less equal to who, but none of this will change the simple fact: there are inequalities. Inequalities exist. And until all of us are equal, none of us are.
The actions of a vocal minority do not invalidate the whole lot. The fact that there are some aspects of life where some people have it worse does not change the fact that other times those same people have it better (And vice versa!). Who has what unfair advantage will never justify that advantage. Pro seems to think that "feminism" is just some dirty work that a bunch of lesbian supremacists cooked up and that a real advocate of gender equality ought not to call themselves that. I say, who cares? Who gives a monticum, of a fraction, of a MOLE of a rat's arse what it's called? The fact is, whatever you call it, whichever genders rights you happen to be currently protecting, whatever reprihensible acts have been comitted under such a false banner, it doesn't matter. As long as you believe men and women should be equal, and you persue this goal peacefully, you will always be a feminist. And if you use feminism like that and only like that, then it will never become obsolete; Because peoples' rights, male or female, are always worth protecting.
Debate Round No. 2


WildWasteland forfeited this round.


To summarize my arguments, feminism is still a huge force for good in the modern world. Gender inequalities for both sexes exist in disturbing amounts. Despite many objectionable actions done in the name of feminism, the actions of a few do not outweigh the many. Feminists work not to punish sexists, but rather replace sexism with understanding and equality.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by SwaggyG27 2 years ago
Wow, the feminists say so much of the same thing, it's like they all memorized the same script like a bunch of mindless zombies!
Posted by Mister_Man 2 years ago
Good to see more people questioning the validity and necessity of feminism. Good luck!
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture