The Instigator
chaos-king
Pro (for)
Losing
5 Points
The Contender
josh_42
Con (against)
Winning
37 Points

do gays have the right to get married?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/20/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 6,070 times Debate No: 5764
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (16)
Votes (8)

 

chaos-king

Pro

i am new to debate.org so i want to see how good i am. i hope you accept my challenge
josh_42

Con

Hello chaos-king, if this is your first debate, let me say, welcome to debate.org
i look forward to debating you on this topic.

Seeing how there is no main argument in the first round, I believe there's no need for me to make state anything at this time.
Debate Round No. 1
chaos-king

Pro

sorry, I am new at this. I should start this argument seeing how i challenged you. I believe gays have the right to marry anyone they please no matter what their sexual orientation is. Not doing so is unfair and is a form of inequality. Do you not believe in equality?
josh_42

Con

my opponent claims:

Claim:
"I believe gays have the right to marry anyone they please no matter what their sexual orientation is. Not doing so is unfair and is a form of inequality. Do you not believe in equality?"

Counter-claim 1:
The issue of gay marriage should first of all be handle in the manner of Popular Sovereignty. Our country is not based on unlimited freedom, it is based on freedom endowed my the majority of the population. if 25% of a state supports Gay Marriage and 75% opposes, why enforce the will over the minority over the majority? this said gay marriage should only be allowed if a majority supports it

Counter-claim 2:
Another objection is the fact homosexuality is an abnormal behavior. now i know people will hate for saying this but here is my logic. First, the issue revolves around sex. Sex is pleasing for the enticement of procreating new members of the species. Point is sex is used for pleasure and is not productive for society.

Marriage in short is for 2 adults to raise and nurture the newest members of our society. since gays cannot reproduce it serves us no purpose to endow these rights.

Counter-Claim 3:
You proposed the question of equality. i do believe in equality as far as i know, gays have the right to live their life style, the right to work in a non-hostile environment, the right to vote, ect. i compare it to smoking, they have the right to live their life style, but in states and in certain ares the are prohibited by law to smoke in public area. Why? Because the people desire it.
Debate Round No. 2
chaos-king

Pro

My opponent stated:
"Another objection is the fact homosexuality is an abnormal behavior. now i know people will hate for saying this but here is my logic. First, the issue revolves around sex. Sex is pleasing for the enticement of procreating new members of the species. Point is sex is used for pleasure and is not productive for society. Marriage in short is for 2 adults to raise and nurture the newest members of our society. Since gays cannot reproduce it serves us no purpose to endow these rights."

It is true gay sex isn't productive, but it is a right. This may sound very dirty, but porn isn't illegal even though it isn't productive in society. Viagra isn't illegal even though most users use it for merely pleasure. Marriage is a tradition for two people to show their love like sex, but much cleaner. Also no one will keep a woman who has her tubes-tied from getting married. Why, because it is wrong and offensive.

You also stated.
"You proposed the question of equality. i do believe in equality as far as i know, gays have the right to live their life style, the right to work in a non-hostile environment, the right to vote, ect. i compare it to smoking, they have the right to live their life style, but in states and in certain areas the are prohibited by law to smoke in public area. Why? Because the people desire it."

I understand your point of view that they have rights and all that, but why not allow them to marry? Smoking is prohibited not because it makes people uncomfortable, but because second hand smokes hurt. Is gay marriage it really hurting anyone physically likes smoking? It is like a racist Caucasian man tying to prevent his son from marrying an African-American woman. What people do in their houses is strictly their business and you have no right to take it from them. It doesn't matter your view on it.
.
josh_42

Con

Concluding Argument:

Seeing as how my opponent has not given an argument against popular sovereignty, it will hold validation in this debate.

my opponent sates "It is true gay sex isn't productive, but it is a right."

How so? Its your belief that it is a legal right. Its you opinion, but where is your legal evidence that gay marriage is a right? where is the evidence that marriage is a right? Marriage has a special purpose, bringing up children. Gay marriage cannot fulfill that purpose. They will have the status, and but receive none of the responsibility.

Also take this into account. Greek men, in ancient times practiced homosexuality & pedantry with young males, but married out of obligation. They understood what marriage was for, procreating and raising new children.

Although you give exceptions to traditional marriage, they are none the less small exceptions. The majority of couple, will marry, will have children and spread their genes. Gay marriage can not produce children, and can not pass on genetic material.

Additionally, if we are to allow gay marriage, we must allow other forms of non-traditional marriage. should polygamy be legalized? Should incest? Should complex marriages? Should bestiality? if gays are given this right, others who practice sexually abnormal activities will demand their rights?

My opponent also states:
"What people do in their houses is strictly their business and you have no right to take it from them."

True i have no right to take their lifestyle choices from them, but this is not what the argument is on, its on gay marriage. They have complete freedom to practice their personal freedoms.

"It doesn't matter your view on it."

Not so. I believe they have the right to their privacy and don't deserve to be harassed by opposing views. But i am a citizen of my country, and it is my obligation to participate in the political affairs of my country/state. As a citizen it is my obligation to vote and act in the interest of my nation and it's people. If i believe it is best for gay marriage not to be legally recognized, and vote against it, it is my right to do so. And it is the right of every person to act accordingly so (if they are for it or not).Since this is a legal issue being brought forth, it is the business of every citizen. And since you did not oppose popular sovereignty in this issue, this argument is justified.

** I thank Chaos-King for staring this debate.**
Debate Round No. 3
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Tristboi22 3 years ago
Tristboi22
Gays can and DO reproduce with by artificial insemination. Now, before someone says, "That is not "natural", well, neither are fertility pills, and artificial insemination for straight couples either.
Posted by Tristboi22 3 years ago
Tristboi22
Pro's argument that majority rules in this country is irrelevant when it trumps other people's rights to the pursuit of happiness and freedom. The majority of Americans believed in segregation at one point, should segregation remain as well?
Posted by josh_42 8 years ago
josh_42
oh, well, if you have any advice please message me if you can
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
Oops ment to say "Pro" sorry about that! I did vote Con
Posted by josh_42 8 years ago
josh_42
thank you sadolite for this insight . i will keep this in mind for future debates. thanks again
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
Con completely failed to address the topic of the debate. "Is gay marriage a right" But instead expressed personal opinion about gay marriage and homosexuality. He sited no legal precedents what so ever to build his case.
Posted by JBlake 8 years ago
JBlake
Conduct: Con
- Con was very courteous. Additionally, Pro extended his argument into the comments section after the debate was over.

Spelling/grammar: Con
- Spelling and grammar was poor on both sides. Con's was less poor.

Convincing arguments: Con
- Pro destroyed Con's point about productivity. Unfortunately he left the main point of Con's argument without answer - that the question should be left to popular sovereignty.

Sources: Tie
- Neither side made use of any sources.

I see that you are both relatively new to the community. Welcome to debate.org. There is room for improvement from both debators. On a positive note, Con's progression of argument was good and easy to read.
Posted by chaos-king 8 years ago
chaos-king
I would like to conclude here:
I understand my opponent believes if a nation doesn't like something they have to choice to remove it, but why should gays have to leave home to get married?
You stated, "How so? It's your belief that it is a legal right. Its your opinion, but where is your legal evidence that gay marriage is a right? "
I don't need legal evidence to know what is right. You know and I know that no matter how you look at it is wrong. Articles such as teaching children gay marriage is debatable, but this argument is not. Just because a population doesn't like gays, Mexicans, Blacks, Whites, or Hindus doesn't mean they have no rights. Seriously who is gay marriage effecting? If two gay men are together in a park no one will feel any different in they were married or not, they will still feel the same.
You also said "Additionally, if we are to allow gay marriage, we must allow other forms of non-traditional marriage. should polygamy be legalized? Should incest? Should complex marriages? Should bestiality? If gays are given this right, others who practice sexually abnormal activities will demand their rights?"
It is true that other complex marriages will demand rights, but why should we give it to them. Bestiality is wrong because the animal is unaware, siblings getting married and having sex may cause deformities of their offspring, but who do gay people harm? It will affect people who find it sick.
I can see you have nothing against gay people and I respect that, but couples don't have to have children. I have uncles and cousins who are married and don't plan to have children. I have an aunt whose tubes are tied, but she got married. Should they not be allowed to the right to get married? You don't want strip their rights, but you believe that if they have all the rights of marriage why bother giving the marriage? The true question is why shouldn't we give them right? The one thing that truly matters is if they are both in love.
Posted by chaos-king 8 years ago
chaos-king
I would like to conclude here:
I understand my opponent believes if a nation doesn't like something they have to choice to remove it, but why should gays have to leave home to get married?
You stated, "How so? It's your belief that it is a legal right. Its your opinion, but where is your legal evidence that gay marriage is a right? "
I don't need legal evidence to know what is right. You know and I know that no matter how you look at it is wrong. Articles such as teaching children gay marriage is debatable, but this argument is not. Just because a population doesn't like gays, Mexicans, Blacks, Whites, or Hindus doesn't mean they have no rights. Seriously who is gay marriage effecting? If two gay men are together in a park no one will feel any different in they were married or not, they will still feel the same.
You also said "Additionally, if we are to allow gay marriage, we must allow other forms of non-traditional marriage. should polygamy be legalized? Should incest? Should complex marriages? Should bestiality? If gays are given this right, others who practice sexually abnormal activities will demand their rights?"
It is true that other complex marriages will demand rights, but why should we give it to them. Bestiality is wrong because the animal is unaware, siblings getting married and having sex may cause deformities of their offspring, but who do gay people harm? It will affect people who find it sick.
I can see you have nothing against gay people and I respect that, but couples don't have to have children. I have uncles and cousins who are married and don't plan to have children. I have an aunt whose tubes are tied, but she got married. Should they not be allowed to the right to get married? You don't want strip their rights, but you believe that if they have all the rights of marriage why bother giving the marriage? The true question is why shouldn't we give them right? The one thing that truly matters is if they are both in l
Posted by KRFournier 8 years ago
KRFournier
My vote:

Conduct: Tie. While Con was more courteous, he also added an additional argument in Round 3 (the bit about allowing other forms of marriage).

Spelling and Grammar: Con.

Convincing Argument: Con. Con refuted all of Pro's arguments whilst his own original arguments remained unchallenged.

Sourced: Tie.
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by RacH3ll3 8 years ago
RacH3ll3
chaos-kingjosh_42Tied
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Vote Placed by gonovice 8 years ago
gonovice
chaos-kingjosh_42Tied
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Vote Placed by theitalianstallion 8 years ago
theitalianstallion
chaos-kingjosh_42Tied
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Vote Placed by sadolite 8 years ago
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chaos-kingjosh_42Tied
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Vote Placed by JBlake 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by josh_42 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by KRFournier 8 years ago
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chaos-kingjosh_42Tied
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Vote Placed by PoeJoe 8 years ago
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chaos-kingjosh_42Tied
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