The Instigator
Arezu
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
The_Chaos_Heart
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points

do we live as we wish?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
The_Chaos_Heart
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/5/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,212 times Debate No: 34536
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

Arezu

Pro

i also know there are many factors which lead us not 2 live as we desire, but i defenitely believe it's I who build the way of my life.
The_Chaos_Heart

Con

Since my opponent has not taken the opportunity to define terms, I will present the following definitions for this debate:


We - The general populace of global human society.

Wish - Something desired of longed for.


In this sense, the resolution can be read as "Does the general populace of the world live as they desire?"

I will be disputing this. We do not live as we wish. Rather, we live as we must.

With that said, I turn it over to my opponent, for first arguments.
Debate Round No. 1
Arezu

Pro

I do disagree.
What do u mean by must? Can u clarify who or what can change the way of our
lives as we are the ones who are responsible for our lives? We are able to
choose what to do, what not to do, where to live, where to work, whom to live
with and…. We can select our religions, schools, universities, spouses, friends
and…. If we want we can be the ruler of our world!

The_Chaos_Heart

Con

I am certainly more than happy to elaborate.

Human beings are restricted to the reality they find themselves in. Any and every avenue is not open to them. An easy example would be the desire to fly, which no human can do, as it is physically impossible for our species. But this is a simplistic answer, we can delve much deeper.


Take for instance, a lower class individual, who only has enough money to pay for electricity, or pay for running water. They choose water. Now one may say "Aha! They are living as they wish, because they chose that path!" But in truth, they are not living as they wish. They are living as they wish within the confines of their present reality. There is a big difference there. If they were living as they truly wished, they would have both running water, and electricity, and have to worry about neither. This is what I mean when I say we live as we must; we live according to what we think are the best options, given our current reality.

Many of the things you mention are not choices people can make. Religion is by and large determined by the culture and family you are born into (hence why, for instance, the Middle East is predominantly Muslim), schools too are determined based upon age, location, and past assessment. Also, economic class heavily influences what you are even capable of affording. You may wish to go to an ivory level school, but simply have the lack of funds to do so; and your location as part of the member of the lower class could assure you an education so poor, you never receive the proper tools that would allow you to enter such a university to begin with. Spouses and friends are also determined by location, and by what's available to you; not necessarily what you desire. Surely you, or someone you have known, has experienced a broken heart (desiring someone they cannot have). And above all, nearly no one on this planet will ever have a hope at becoming ruler of it. No one has yet to do it, though several have tried. Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Khan. These are but a few of the names of humans who have tried to control the world, as was their desire. Yet they could not; they were incapable.


This is why we do not live as we desire. It is impossible for all humans to obtain their desired life. We therefore live not as we desire, but as we must, within the confines of present reality.
Debate Round No. 2
Arezu

Pro

I cannot accept what you wrote as u didn't talk generally. I mean u made some examples, it’s better to call them exceptions, but u can't put all people in those
groups. For instance something that I’m really against is that you wrote we
have to choose our schools, friends and spouses based on our location, but it's
definitely wrong, do we live in 1000 years ago? Of course not, we can take
a trip to different places, we can even choose to live in other parts of the
world, who would force us to stay in a place that we don't feel comfortable in?
You also said there are some things that aren’t that much optional and they have to be
chosen base on different facilities that are available for example in our
society. But there are a large number of people who find their desires in their
own country, there are just some people who their dreams won’t come true in a
way they are living now, and those people as I mention can find other measures
in other places or conditions.

You also mentioned that for example humans cannot fly, we are not talking about some
imaginary things, life is reality and our dreams are based on life. but I also
should tell u, it was in the past that human being wasn't able to fly, nowadays,
there are different ways to achieve this goal, we can even travel to other planets
so flying is not a big deal, and it doesn’t matter to be able to do it
physically or by using different vehicles as long as we can call it flying.

By the way, when I talked about being a ruler, I didn’t mean to be the leader of the
world, I wanted to tell u we can be the leader of our own world, I mean our
life.

Lastly I’d like to add, we can live as we want as long as we think wisely, as humans are supposed to be wise, and our wishes are based on life, not those virtual things that we
can’t even call them dreams.

The_Chaos_Heart

Con

"I cannot accept what you wrote as u didn't talk generally."

On the contrary, I thought I spoke very generally. Nearly everyone on this planet falls into the above restrictions.


" For instance something that I’m really against is that you wrote we have to choose our schools, friends and spouses based on our location, but it's definitely wrong, do we live in 1000 years ago? Of course not, we can take a trip to different places..."

Time is not significant here. First of all, until you are of legal adulthood, or are subject to the whim of your parents. This would mean, for most of your school life, you do not pick where you go to school; it is determined based upon the location where your parents live. Consequently, friends too are determined, as I said, by location and what resources are available to you. Unless one has a computer capable of connecting to the Internet, generally speaking the only people you will ever become friends with are those in your immediate area, because those are the people you can talk to and share experiences with. And no, not everyone can afford a computer, not even in the Western world. Spouses follow this same logic. As for taking trips places, this requires money and time, which again, many people simply do not have in large quantities, thanks to their socio-economic status. Almost no one will ever be able to, at least on their own, afford to take a trip to another country. Travel is directly inhibited by our economic system.

So I am not entirely sure how these complaints support your case...when it's clear to anyone who works for a living, or who ever grew up as a child in this world, that by and large, no, you do not have the capability to live as you truly wish within these regards.

And of course, this is only thinking of the West. When we examine 3rd world nations, we find that the situation is even more dramatic, and more constrictive. Would you dare say that, for instance, those living in the poverty stricken continent of Africa are "living as they desire"? I should certainly hope not.


"we can even choose to live in other parts of the world, who would force us to stay in a place that we don't feel comfortable in?"

Well, see, funny you should ask. Putting aside the fact that, again, socio-economic class is a great inhibitor to one's ability to travel the globe, there are some nations out there that do not allow their citizens to leave the country. North Korea is a well-known example of this. It's citizens have barely any ability to move around their own country, let alone leave it. Emigration is actually banned there, so anyone who is born into the country (not an act of free will), and desires to leave, legally cannot. Now one may argue they can always try and flee illegally, and risk their lives doing so, but this can hardly seen to be said "living as one wishes". This would, again, be an example of living as one must.


"You also mentioned that for example humans cannot fly, we are not talking about some
imaginary things, life is reality and our dreams are based on life."

Are you insinuating the desire to fly is not a real phenomenon? Because a quick Google[1] search would definitely speak otherwise. The human desire to fly is not imaginary; it's real. And it's based upon a very real reality; the reality that human beings as a species are physically incapable of flying. We have attempted to overcome this with all manner of craft (airplanes, wing suits, ect.) as best we can, and yet, the ability to truly fly escapes us, and our dream will never be fully realized. Another example of a desire that cannot be achieved.


"but I also should tell u, it was in the past that human being wasn't able to fly, nowadays, there are different ways to achieve this goal, we can even travel to other planets so flying is not a big deal, and it doesn’t matter to be able to do it physically or by using different vehicles as long as we can call it flying."

On the contrary. It makes all the difference in the world, if physically flying is one's desire. You're attempting to shift the goal post here.


"By the way, when I talked about being a ruler, I didn’t mean to be the leader of the world, I wanted to tell u we can be the leader of our own world, I mean our life."

Perhaps you should be more specific next time, as I quote, "If we want we can be the ruler of our world!" This would imply you are speaking of Earth.

However, even if you are speaking about ruling over our own personal lives, you would still be wrong. We are subject to a number of authoritative powers, completely without our consent, on numerous occasions throughout our life. As children we are subject to the authority of parents and other adults. Our entire lives we are subject to the authority of the State, to the point where for some people, the State can force you to fight and die for it, whether you want to or not. Clearly one cannot be said to be a ruler of their own life, when so many outside forces hold dominion over us on a regular basis.


"Lastly I’d like to add, we can live as we want as long as we think wisely..."

Again, you are shifting the goal post. You stated in this debate that human beings may live as they desire. Now you are attempting to claim they can live as they desire, so long as those desires are reasonable. This is an entirely different claim, and in fact, is a form of my argument. Because human beings are subject to outside forces and restrictions even beyond human society itself, we cannot be said to live as we desire. Rather, we live by how we think is best, given our current circumstances. This is not living as we desire. This is living as we must.


Therefore, we do not, as a human society, live as we desire.


Sources

1. http://lmgtfy.com...
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Ameliamk1 3 years ago
Ameliamk1
ArezuThe_Chaos_HeartTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con easily took this. Pro failed to make any serious argument, and I appreciate con for taking their opponent seriously despite the steady flow of nonsense. Good job, con!
Vote Placed by 4567TME 3 years ago
4567TME
ArezuThe_Chaos_HeartTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro made some spelling errors, and overall didn't appear to take her own debate professionally, although she did bring up an interesting topic. Con was better, as she took a pointed, brilliant approach with convincing arguments. Con gets source points, because she used them.