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does god really exist

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/25/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,780 times Debate No: 34193
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (18)
Votes (2)




I'm a Christian but sometimes i question does God really exist


God does exist, and there is no reason to believe otherwise.
To begin with, God has revealed Himself to us with the Bible. The Bible contains 66 books written by 40 men that did not know each other, but yet they testified the same thing. The Bible was written over three continents over hundreds of years. {1} There are many prophecies in the Bible that have been fulfilled, such as how Babylon would rule Judah for 70 years, as written in Jeremiah 25:11-12 (King James Version), which says "11 And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
12 And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the Lord, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations." {2}

It is also known that Babylon would be reduced to pools of water as said in Isaiah 14:23, saying, "I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts." "In Isaiah 14:23, the prophet said that Babylon, which had been a world power at two different times in history, would be brought to a humble and final end. It would be reduced to swampland. After Cyrus conquered Babylon in 539 BC, the kingdom never again rose to power. The buildings of Babylon fell into a gradual state of ruin during the next several centuries. Archaeologists excavated Babylon during the 1800s. Some parts of the city could not be dug up because they were under a water table that had risen over the years." {3}

In Ezekiel 25:14, it is written, "And I will lay my vengeance upon Edom by the hand of my people Israel: and they shall do in Edom according to mine anger and according to my fury; and they shall know my vengeance, saith the Lord God." Basically, it was said that the Jews would avenge the Edomites. According to the Fifth Edition of Columbia Encyclopedia, "Edomite history was marked by continuous hostility and warfare with Jews" At the end of the second century B.C., they were subdued by Hasmonaean priest-king John Hyrcanus I"" {4}

Additionally, there are written verses that are scientifically accurate. You must keep in mind that these were written many years prior to scientific breakthrough.

Job 28:24-25 says,
24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
25 To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure."
Now, the fact that air has weight was discovered only three hundred years ago. {5}

Furthermore, it is said, "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul." - Leviticus 17:11
"The blood carries water and nourishment to every cell, maintains the body"s temperature, and removes the waste material of the body"s cells. The blood also carries oxygen from the lungs throughout the body. " {6}

It is also said, "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:" - Isaiah 40:22
"The word translated "circle" here is the Hebrew word chuwg which is also translated "circuit," or "compass" (depending on the context). That is, it indicates something spherical, rounded, or arched"not something that is flat or square." {7} Many people used to believe that the Earth was flat, when it is in fact spherical. The book of Isaiah was written around 740-680 B.C, which is about three hundred years before Aristotle suggested that the Earth might be spherical in the book called On the Heavens. {8}

Last but not least, the Old Testament clearly prophesies about Jesus Christ, as followed by the verses below.

"Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." - Isaiah 53:12
In this verse, Jesus Christ died and was "numbered with the transgressors, who were the thieves on His left and His right sides. He also was crucified for our sins. After all, you must not forget the "he bare the sin of many" part.

This is fulfilled in Matthew 27:38 as well as Mark 15:27-28
"Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left."

Mark 15:27-28
"27 And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left.
28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors."

Moving on, it is specifically stated that Jesus had pierce marks on his body. Psalm 22:16 says, "For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet." This is accompanied by Zechariah 12:10, saying, "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

This is fulfilled by John 20:25-27, which says:

"25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing."

Moreover, there is prophetic proof that Jesus Christ was a prophet.
The first verse involves Deuteronomy 18:15:
"The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;"

This is fulfilled in Acts 3:20-22:
"20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you."
You should carefully notice verse 22, which is a direct reference to Deuteronomy 18:15, marking the prophetic fulfillment.

Even from the non Christian viewpoint, ancient Roman historian Tacitus wrote, "Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome..." {9}

With all this info, there is no rational foundation for questioning His existence.

3. (scroll down further until you see #3)
4. Vallasi, George, and Barbara Chernow. The Columbia Encyclopedia. 5th Edition. Vol 1. Boston: MA Houghton Mifflin, 1993. Print.
For #4, you must also refer to: -
Debate Round No. 1


Okay I didn't feel like reading all of that but I skimmed through and you said something about the bible. What other proof do you have that God really exists besides the bible. Have you actually seen god no I don't think so. the bible could all be lies. and if the bible is proof that god exists then comic books are proof that super man exists. So besides the bible you have no proof


I thank my opponent for his reply.

First of all, my opponent did not even bother reading my previous post in its entirety. This in turn caused my opponent to have only a limited grasp of what I was saying. My opponent asked, "What other proof do you have that God really exists besides the Bible?" However, if jojoclaw had read my first post, then he probably would have noticed the parts in which there are scientific accuracies as well as the non-Christian source from ancient Roman historian Tacitus. The point being made here is that the Bible had the aforementioned scientific accuracies written PRIOR to revolutionary scientific breakthroughs. For example, the fact that air has weight was figured out a few centuries ago. My opponent needs to take into consideration that there are other secular, scientific books that prove the Bible true by verifying those science facts. Moving on to the Tacitus' history, Jesus Christ was mentioned as well as how the governor back then (Pontius Pilate) dealt with Jesus' crucifixion. Are these scientific and historic facts exclusively mentioned in the Bible itself, as my opponent put it? Not at all.

Also, I had mentioned the prophecy of the Jews avenging the Edomites, which was in the Fifth Edition of Columbia Encyclopedia. Moreover, jojoclaw did not seem to check the parts in which I referred to Archaeologists not being able to dig up some parts of Babylon, because there was a lot of water that had risen over many years. After all, Babylon was reduced to pools of water as predicted in Isaiah 14:23, which says, "I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts." Additionally, we hear news about the ongoing battles in Damascus, as prophesied in Isaiah 17:1, saying, "The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap." {10} There is another latest prophecy, which was fulfilled by Israel by being one of the biggest agricultural exporters in the world, even though it is naturally not favorable for agriculture due to its geographical issues. {11} Now, Isaiah 27:6 prophesied, "He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root: Israel shall blossom and bud, and fill the face of the world with fruit."

You do not need to see God to have proof of God. Gravity, for example, is proved to be real by science, yet you do not see it. However, you can feel gravity. You can drop an object and observe how it falls down. Likewise, many people have tested and attempted to tantalize God (just like how people test gravity) by coming up with baseless claims such as Jesus being a carbon copy of Horus. However, this was refuted effortlessly, as shown by the YouTube video. {12}

The Bible could not be full of lies at all, considering that all the 66 books have been preserved well throughout the course of hundreds of years. {13} There are many copies of it, and one of them is the Greek copy of the Old Testament, known as the Septuagint. {14} Using the "all lies" logic, you could also say that Ancient Greek history could all be lies, but then you would be denying archaeological and written facts. Just like how there is proof of Alexander the Great's existence, there is proof of Jesus' existence as recorded by various witnesses that did not know each other, and yet testified the same things.

Comic books cannot be proof that Superman exists, because comic books have no basic means of credibility such as archaeological references and written accounts from witnesses. The Bible has many prophecies and scientific facts, as I have emphasized several times, whereas Superman comics have nothing like that. Besides, Superman comics are proven to be fiction, as there are records of artists and writers coming up with artworks and scripts. {15}

"So besides the bible you have no proof." - jojoclaw

For this, you can refer back to my first few paragraphs referring to secular books validating the Bible.

Waiting for your response,


12. (VIDEO)
Debate Round No. 2


jojoclaw forfeited this round.


Well, my opponent forfeited. I appreciate him for his participation.

Vote Pro!
Debate Round No. 3
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by sweetbreeze 4 years ago
I would have voted Pro if I could...
Posted by sweetbreeze 4 years ago
A Christian not believing that God exists is a BIG problem, I tell ya. BIG problem.
Posted by sweetbreeze 4 years ago
Gosh, a Christian not believing that God exists...
Posted by sweetbreeze 4 years ago
I'm not Christian, but I have no right to say that God doesn't exist, because I cannot give such judgement when I don't really know for sure.
Posted by Sower4GS 4 years ago
Sorry, I have been looking for Sheep too.

Very well done.
Posted by GOP 4 years ago
Lol, I wish there were voters around here. I hate it when debates end up with a 0-0 tie.
Posted by gordonjames 4 years ago
TUF stated
"If you are a Christian and question gods existence
than you are not really a Christian. You are an agnostic or atheist."

I think we need to distinguish at least 3 common experiences people call Christian:
1. Christian World View - Believe a traditional Christian position about the world we live in.
This is common for a person who has grown up in a good church
and may have read/studied some apologetics or science and asked the big questions
2. Christian worshiper - Attend church and are surrounded by Christian assumptions
These people see a functional Christianity and see nor reason to explore other options
3. Christian experience - Born again, spirit filled
Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

These are not the only flavors, and they are not mutually exclusive.
The more we ask the big questions the more we have moments when the intellect has to work through all the evidence. The nature of intelligent exploration is that we consider all the options and try to figure out hoe they all fit.

We don't lose option #3 above (Holy Spirit) but we question how everything fits.
Posted by O.Z 4 years ago
Hey now, just because the man questions his religion doesn't mean he isn't a true Christian. I'm gad he doesn't follow the faith blindly. I kept my faith by thoroughly questioning it, often making note of the flaws in the bible. If you don't question your belief's, how can you find what you really believe in? It's not good to follow faith so blindly. And, jojoclaw makes a valid point in his case. How can you prove God exists? Well, that's a good and bad question. It's good because it opens up more for debate, and bad because it's an impossible question to answer. We have no way of knowing. It's just a matter of faith, not science. People struggle to understand that. I kept being Christian because I found a balance between science and religion that I find plausible. If you are doubtful of you're beliefs Jojoclaw, I suggest working that out.
Posted by GRANTHOLBEN 4 years ago
Why even question that? They think they found Noahs Ark in Turkey.
Posted by JarJarBinks 4 years ago
I have proof there have been skeletons of horses under the red sea and I saw an Angel once
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by justin.graves 4 years ago
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: F.F. and horrible 1/2 debate by Con.
Vote Placed by gordonjames 4 years ago
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: I was amazed that CON stated they didn't even read PRO's arguments. I understand not reading oll the details on every link, but you need to read the arguments. CON stated they were Christian in world-view, but dismissed the scriptures. That seems like false pretenses. Then CON didn't show up for a round.