The Instigator
RebeccaDAdabater
Pro (for)
Losing
37 Points
The Contender
Leonitus_Trujillo
Con (against)
Winning
43 Points

dont ask dont tell rule is not fair

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/11/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,841 times Debate No: 263
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (24)

 

RebeccaDAdabater

Pro

the dont ask dont tell rule is not fair in the military. perople abuse this rule as a way to get aout of their service. homosexual people have a right to be in the military and it is not fair to excuse them just because they are homosexual. just, the dont ask dont tell rule inacted by the military is not fair, homosexuals shouldnt be excused because of their preferences and the dont ask dont tell rule is just used as an excuse and abused by to many.
Leonitus_Trujillo

Con

The Don't ask Don't tell rule is an extremly wise and fair piece of legislation and I am proud of our leaders who were able to write it up, I would have just excluded them all but this is a decent compromise in keeping gays out of the military and introducing on privacy, and the pursuit of happiness, and keep many people from crying from inequality.

On the basis of homosexuals being excused from the military that statement puts it in too much of a good light. Its not that they are excused, its that they don't want them in the military and they reject them from the military, but to be fair they will let them in there if they keep their mouths shut about it. I personally being in the military would go psycho if I found out that the guy that sleeps in my tent every night is gay. Not becuase I am homophobic, but becuase lets be real. If we are sent to Iraq for example we are trained for 3 months to get prepared for active duty. That is three months with nothing but men. then we get sent to the middle of god knows where for a maximum of a year and six months. a gay person will be with a unit for ONE YEAR AND SIX MONTH WITH NOTHING BUT PERFECTLY BUILT MEN IN THEIR TWENTIES. Thats a gay person's dream and I would not, will not feel comfortable. Not to mention in the navy, oh thats worse, at least in the Army and Marines you have a weapon to shoot him. In the Navy your caste in the middle of the ocean when a gay person comes out the closet . Your stuck with him on a ship full of men for an undetermined amount of time and no prisons or m-16's.

The Military is not a democracy, it observes a stricter conduct because it is a fighting force and must be efficient. The Uniform Code Of Military Justice clearly bans the practice for good reason. The soldiers should not be thinking of anything except their wives/girlfriends/hookers that are miles and miles away leaving them able to do nothing except hope and...well communicate with their right/left hand.
However gay people in the military is a huge liability and detracts from service, and creates the ability for sexual tension to exist between peers and also between commander and subordinate.

The Military likes to keep things , If I outrank you do what I say to get the job done. Adding romantic emotions creates and entirely new dimension that the Military Justice department doesn't need to deal with, and its not like the military doesn't deal with enough scandals already.

If people want out of the military and want to say they are gay and get dishonorably discharged forfeiting all of their benefits and tarnishing their name, thats is fine by my I don't want them in there in the first place if they don't want to give an arm and a leg to protect my freedom.
Debate Round No. 1
RebeccaDAdabater

Pro

The Don't ask Don't tell rule is an not wise nor is it a fair piece of legislation. I am appualled that our leaders cold write something like it. there is no real reason to keep gays out of our military. there is no proof that they cant do the same work that any other man or women can do. it dose not fall in the pursuit of happiness, if a person had to keep who they really are inside they can not truely be happy.

it is exactly the fact that they dont want them in the military that is not just. there is no proof or studies that say that homosexuals can not proform the same duties as any other man or women. they shouldnt have to keep their mouthes shut it should be a free subject to talk about. and just becuse they are homosexual dosnt mean that they are staring and druling over every guy there that is soupposedly "PERFECTLY BUILT MEN IN THEIR TWENTIES" that is just a sterotype. and in your words "lets be real" you nor anyone else can say that every homosexuals dream is to spend a year and six months with nothing but perfectly built men in their twenties that is yet another stero type

as for the reason that "soldiers should not be thinking of anything except their wives/girlfriends/hookers that are miles and miles away leaving them able to do nothing except hope" that is not a reason it is an opion according to the military they should be focused on protecting their country.

there is no one to say that a man in the military homosexual or not will or will not feel sexual tension between peer or subordinates. every one in the military is amle there are also females n the military so talking about sexual tentions apply to all.

once again you are forgetting that there are also femaled in the military that can creat sexual tentions. and there is also no one to say that homosexuals or any other people go to the military to look for relation ships or anything along thise lines.

it is true that the military deals with scandals already but do they come from homosexuals in the military
The Military likes to keep things , If I outrank you do what I say to get the job done. Adding romantic emotions creates and entirely new dimension that the Military Justice department doesn't need to deal with, and its not like the military doesn't deal with enough scandals already
Leonitus_Trujillo

Con

You are making the mistake of turning the issue on physical limitations. That is not what this is about, not only is there no scientific proof that homosexuals perform worse then heterosexuals but it is absolutely illogical to believe that there would pose some physical limitations by being gay.

You argue that there are females in the military and sexual tensions already exist. That is also true. and The Uniform Code of Military Justice outlaws any sexual or unprofessional conduct between a man and a women in uniform.

The fact is many women cry wolf in the military because of sexual harassment. With the Advent of gays in the military that opens up a no window for harassment and sexual tensions, and false pretexts, increase the likelihood that a commanders judgment will come under question , its no the way to exemplify leadership.

A truth many people miss is that the moral of the men depend upon their commanders in the squad level, the platoon level, company and above. And their performance in battle depends upon who leads them in battle. Commanders are often re-located to other units when they loose the respect of their men which could happen for many reasons. There was once a commander who boasted about wearing Victoria's Secret bright pink cotton underwear below his uniform everyday. He pride himself in importing them from New York, he was a First Lieutanant in the United States Army. And his subordinates recounted how every time he went into battle the men couldn't get those pink underwear out of their heads it really is a factor that needs to be taken into consideration , when your ability to follow orders is in danger. And that is a big reason why it is do not ask do not tell. Your ability to command troops and work with your peers is hampered by the knowledge if your are homosexual or not. That is just not our standard of leadership in this country . The Military is not civilian life, things are not equal , there is a hierarchy-- something that blatantly goes against the constitution and equality , but it needs to be that way to be effective in defending the constitution.

Homosexuals can peruse happiness outside of the military, and if they really want to serve their country god bless them but they are asked to please confirm to the same behavioral standards that everyone else conforms to.
Debate Round No. 2
RebeccaDAdabater

Pro

i was not makeing it to an issue of physcal limitations. i was pointing out that if theres not a physcal limitation as you said would be illogical then there it is no logical reason for the military to reject them.

the Uniform of Military Justice dose not "out law" it. i just says that it must be dealt eith ans the sourt martial may direct and this goes for couples of opposite or smae sex.

with the advent of gays being in the military openly will close the "window" for harassment and sexual tensions, and false pretexts, because if the DADT rule is abbosioshed thenthey can be open so there will be no false pretexes, sexual tentions, or harassment because the other men/women will not be suspicious or expecting. there will be no quesion or ways to exemplif leadership

the "truth" tha men depend upon their compony and above might be true but there is no way to tell that they would look down or not feel comfortale around some one homosexual just because they might be ""looking" at them but you cannot forget that there are also women that also might be "looking" at them. are you saying that they wold just be against homosexuals.

as for your example, you never said weither he was homosexual or not thus proving distractions can come from any one or any where relentless of sexual prefernce. and even if there is this hierarchy the ranks are baised on skill and experiance notupone sex or sexual preferance

what if a boy dream all his life whas to follow his fathers foot step into the military but he was homosexual. do you honstaly belive liying about your sefl is worth it. would people really want ot be excpted anywhere if the whole of them were not excpted. "they are asked to please confirm to the same behavioral standards that everyone else conforms to" what are you talking about ? as far as im concerned there are no behavioral standard, i mean there are hookers walking around wearing hardly anything and asked by who exactly? the goverment? i think not, and no one else has a right to
Leonitus_Trujillo

Con

I find it absolutley shocking that you fail to recongize a behavioral standard in the United States Military. I think you are failing to realize that the military world is completely different from the civilian world. Yes there are whores in the civilian world NOT in the military. The fact is when a person joins the military he waves many of his constitutional rights in order to protect the constitutional rights of others. In place they adhere to a Strict code of Conduct, the Uniform Code of Military Justice/Conduct.Within these set of regulations are embedded the Behavioral and Moral standards that every soldier is required to adhere to. And yes for you liberals out there the Military does impose moral standards and does not leave it to the soldier to define his own standards. Because the private life of a soldier is hard to distinguish or indistinguishable from his career.We in the comforts of our homes cannot start criticizing military leadership from the comforts of an easy chair. We Must make the distinctions between military life and civilian life, and we must accept this distinction as to being necessary for the survival of the constitution. If the military was an extension of civilian life the United States would not be here today.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by clsmooth 9 years ago
clsmooth
DADT is discriminatory, and the government should not discriminate. That said, CON made better ARGUMENTS for his case; they were more logical. His opponent did not challenge his logic that civilian life and military life are different. While this is true, it still does not give the government the authority to discriminate.
Posted by KevinL75 9 years ago
KevinL75
I was disappointed that pro didn't go after this comment: "I personally being in the military would go psycho if I found out that the guy that sleeps in my tent every night is gay. Not becuase I am homophobic, but becuase lets be real."

I think it's very much because you're homophobic. The fear is that the guy will make unwanted sexual advances toward you, right? So if you're not homophobic, there shouldn't be a difference between sleeping in the same room with a gay guy and sleeping in the same room with a woman you're not attracted to.

That is, unless you think homosexuality is associated with not being able to keep one's hands to one's self.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
I think the winner of this debate so far in my eyes is the PRO ..not because I agree , because I think it has a purpose and a need , I just don't agree with the reasoning.
Posted by willact723 9 years ago
willact723
To be honest. I worked on capital hill. In fact, i was in charge of preparing a briefing based on meetings with military personnel, discharged service members, and research agencies. The result? DADT is an overwhelming failure.

Oh, and on a personal note. You're homophobic, so gays shouldn't be allowed to be open? Yeah, that is a viable argument. You'd think the repubs would hate DADT, they need all the troops they can get for Iraq!
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
My opinion on this policy is this, I think it has a reason for being implemented. I think it is to protect homosexuals from being unfairly harassed. My husband is over in Iraq and is not homophobic at all , he could care less about anyones sexual preferences as long as they respect he is married and not interested in anyone else but his wife ..doesnt bother him, however there are unfortunately some men that are very threatened by it and homophobic.so to protect the interest o homosexuals I think it is a good idea. It prevents harassment and the interests of the homosexual soldiers as well. Also if someone uses the fact that they are Gay or any other excuse to get out of deployment or the military I dont want them serving with my husband ..I dont want anyone who won't do anything to protect themselves and their men to be in my husbands unit ..they take a hike
24 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Mr.Infidel 5 years ago
Mr.Infidel
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Reasons for voting decision: STOP VOTE BOMBING, WILLOWEED!
Vote Placed by Willoweed 5 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: gays should be able to fight for our country
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