The Instigator
frankfurter50
Pro (for)
The Contender
ShabShoral
Con (against)

e.c. segar's popeye comic strips are better than max fleischer's popeye cartoons.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/4/2017 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 570 times Debate No: 98288
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

frankfurter50

Pro

e.c. segar's popeye comic strips are the REAL popeye. they show the one eyed spinach eater in all his glory.

the cartoons by max fleischer, however, are weak and stupid. in these, popeye does nothing except beat up bluto.

in the comic strips, popeye has a wide variety of opponents, including toar, tork, jabbo, the sea hag, jack snork, mr. chizzleflint, clint gore, and general blozo, as well as an assortment of nameless brutes who pop up for no reason. this is a wide variety of villians who beat bluto a thousand to one.

i am arguing that the comic strips are better. you are arguing that the cartoons are better. good luck!
ShabShoral

Con

1. Bluto.

Bluto is the most recognisable Popeyes character besides Popeyes himself; repetition is a tool of memory.

2. Longevity

That we are debating this at all means that the legend of Popeye is being prolonged; this would not have happened had the cartoons not been made. Therefore, the cartoons are responsible for the survival of the comics, and are thus at least equal in worth to them.

3. Consciousness

The moving nature of the cartoons allows one to get lost in the action; one's consciousness is filled, at all moments, with Popeye. Thus, Popeye is granted full reality in the mind's eye. Compare to the comics, which are perhaps Popeye at 50% or 60% reality.

4. Bluto.

Repetition will strengthen point 1.
Debate Round No. 1
frankfurter50

Pro

i had awaited your argument for quite some time.

the cartoons are simple minded and weak. perhaps they did prolong popeye's popularity, but they did so in the wrong way. the popeye observed in the cartoons is not the REAL popeye. he may look somewhat like him, but he is a shadowy trickster, an imp who lies to your very face.

some subtle differences can be observed, such as how the comic popeye has a black, red, and blue shirt, and the cartoon popeye wears nothing but white. the comic popeye is a redhead, the cartoon popeye is bald.

oh, yes, and did i mention how the comic popeye only ONCE beat up bluto? it's true. in the great epic "the eighth sea," bluto appears once for a grand brawl, never appearing again, anywhere. in a sense, segar is at fault for creating bluto, since he would eventually ruin popeye culture.

bluto is not a REAL popeye character. REAL characters are wimpy, olive oyl, castor oyl, cole oyl, nana oyl, the sea hag, geezil, toar, pappy, king blozo, oscar, the goon, and, of course, popeye himself. but the list ends there, because bluto is and was only intended to be a small character- a man who came once and never came after that.

the strips have REAL humor. wimpy bamboozles geezil, he cons rough house out of hamburgers, popeye fights in the boxing ring, talks of politics in nazilia, and aids castor oyl on his many cases. none of these themes, might i remind you, occur anywhere in the cartoons. the cartoons always follow a simple, stupid formula. popeye and olive oyl, bluto takes olive, popeye beats bluto up, popeye and olive together again.

the strips, ha! they have lots of variety. popeye goes to africa, out west, to unknown island nations, to nazilia, and founds his own country(twice!)

you cannot compare a thing made of pure genius, such as the strips, to a thing made of rubbish, such as the cartoons.

i await your following argument.
ShabShoral

Con

I must note that my opponent starts the debate by ridiculing a childhood hero of mine, the cartoon Popeye. He calls him an "imp". I demand that he apologise for implying that impishness is a negative quality; if not, he is nothing more than a racist pig, and deserves to be docked points.

He then critiques the cartoon Popeye's fashion, which, as a fashion historian (especially interested in the fashion of fictional characters - see my blog: https://fictionalfashionblog.wordpress.com...), makes me howl with laughter. The whiteness of the costume serves to represent the purity and military-formality of the cartoon Popeye, as oppsoed to the juvenile dilletanteism of the comic Popeye. This, in itself, says all one must know about the intellectual merits of each.

Bluto is as real a Popeye character as Popeye himself. Bluto is the eternal force of time, pushing against Popeye. Every win over Bluto represents a day overcome. What my opponent does not realise is that the days will never end for Popeye; even if Bluto wins, Popeye will not be there to see. Nietzsche's Eternal Return in its purest.

The vain comedy of the comics was surpassed, by far, by the absurdist theatre of the cartoons. The repitition my opponent points out is exactly what makes Fleischer such a genius. Popeye is modeled after Sisyphus. That my opponent is not well-read enough to realise this is unfortunate.

As for variety, must I point out that animation allows Popeye to be seen in *motion*? One *experiences* Popeye's every action. One *becomes* Popeye. This cannot happen in the comics, no matter what exotic location is visited. Such first-person experience is infinitely layered. Talk about variety.
Debate Round No. 2
frankfurter50

Pro

wow! you made it just in the nick of time! i was planning on making a second one but now i don't have to.

sir, i wish to inform you that "imp" is by no means a racial slur. it may be an insult, yes, but not related to race. by the use of the word imp i imply to some synonyms, such as "deceiver" and "trickster". i think it describes the cartoon popeye to a t.

so you're a military lover, eh? i understand that, since you call the deciever a "childhood hero" and the cartoons were made during world war two, when america thought that the military was something good. HAH! good? it's killing! death! men turn into beasts when war breaks out.

voters, i now call your attention to two popeye cartoons from this era, one called "scrap the japs" and another called "you're a sap, mr. jap." these cartoons show the cartoon popeye at his racist worst, beating up asian men without a sense of morality or decency in his heart. you can observe these on youtube, voters, if you don't believe me.

i assert that the comic strips are by no means "juvenile." they deal with contemporary (at that time) subjects, and serve as political commentary for the twenties.

consider king blozo's struggles with prohibition, the struggles of nazilian and popilanian farmers, the difficulty of being a restaurant man, political debates (between popeye and roughhouse), poverty, wall street, and education, among other things.

in the cartoons, the fake popeye goes roller skating, runs an amusement park sideshow booth, and goes on a roller coaster. i, for one, would call that juvenile.

let's go back to the popeye/bluto conflict.

on the one hand, popeye appears like a wimp, because bluto is oftentimes able to knock him out with one punch. on the other, bluto appears like a wimp, because popeye is able to knock him out with one punch. would you call these men formidable adversaries?

in the comic strip, pluto jumps on popeye's back, wraps him around a mast, and throws him off the ship. in fact, popeye and bluto fight so well that their clothes are almost torn off. the action lasts for over ten six-panel dailies. do they fight like that in the cartoons?

no, the action is contained in two minutes.

you do not need to see popeye in animation to observe his fists. segar uses so many motion lines that popeye looks like a whirling demon.

i don't think popeye was modeled after anyone, i think that he is an original character, sprung from segar's own mind.
ShabShoral

Con

My opponent tries to whitespain the notion of "racial slurs". I, as a mixed-race individual, have to say that I find this repulsive. He insults Popeye using a slur, and has the gall to try and brush it aside.

What other time in history involved a group being labeled as "deceivers" and "tricksters"? That's right. 6 Million.

Vote Con if you do not stand for bigotry.

I would also like to inform my opponent that he is openly insulting those who died during World War Two. He is spitting on their sacrifices, their lives, their graves. Disgusting.

I object to his accusation of racism; he is not Asian, as I am, and therefore does not have the authority to brand Scrap the Japs racist. In fact, Scrap the Japs is *anti-racist* - it holds the dirty japs to the same standard as we hold the (((rats))) and other inferiors. They are given no special treatment.

My opponent, directly after bringing up how Cartoon Popeye deals with WAR and RACISM, two of the MOST mature topics imaginable, calls Cartoon Popeye juvenile. The contradixion is obvious.

He criticises VETERANS because they are violent, yet PRAISES the Comic Popeye for being VICIOUS. I must inform him, VICIOUSNESS IS NOT A VITURE. Defend your point, fool.

Cartoon Popeye is based on centuries of European philosophy. That my opponent is unaware of this speaks to the fact that he has no legitimacy and cannot proclaim who the "real Popeye" is.
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by frankfurter50 1 year ago
frankfurter50
only a day left for you!
Posted by frankfurter50 1 year ago
frankfurter50
yawn...
Posted by frankfurter50 1 year ago
frankfurter50
whoops...

on round one, i meant "general bunzo," not blozo.
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