The Instigator
harrytruman
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
asi14
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

end the federal reserve

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/12/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 536 times Debate No: 79655
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

harrytruman

Pro

Reasons to end the federal reserve
1. The federal reserve violates article 1 section 8 sentence 5 of the constitution.
2. The federal reserve was the leading cause in both the great depression and the housing bubble.
3. The federal reserve is a privately owned central bank.
4. The federal reserve has made payments to person/persons unknown without the consent or even knowledge of the American people until just recently.
5. The federal reserve issues fiat while the constitution mandates a gold standard.
6. The federal reserve is given a unconstitutional unlimited power over the American economy.
7. The federal reserv has flooded the American economy with trillions of dollars without regards to the consequences to the American people.
8. The federal reserve is governed by a select few non elected officials.
9. The federal reserve act was not thoroughly read through by congress or president Wilson.
10. The federal reserve has robber the US treasury of its constitutional right to issue currency.
11. The federal reserve board of governors has implemented their power for their own personal interests without regard for the welfare of the people.
12. The federal reserve is privately owned, and unfit to govern the economy of any nation.
asi14

Con

The order is: Case, then 2 off

Case
First, there is no evidence any of the things the pro says happened/is happening/will happen. These are a bunch of claims which are unsupported by any detail. That's more than enough to vote neg.

Second, the pro offers no alternative to the Federal Reserve, thus doesn't have the entirety of his plan planned out.
TPP DA
First, the Trans Pacific Partnership-- the most important trade deal for decades to come-- is on the chopping block in Congress. It will pass, but Obama's pressuring through the use of his barely-sufficient political capital is key. [1]

Second, ending the federal reserve is not popular in congress, but Obama could do it, but it would require his usage of political capital. [2]

Third, causes Asia Pivot to fail, causing large scale conflict and nuclear war. [3][4].
Counterplan
Counterplan: The United States Mint should substantially increase its lobbying of curtailment of the Federal Reserve.
The net benefit is the TPP DA. The counterplan solves the TPP DA because it doesn't go through Congress, thus ensuring TPP will pass without political capital struggle.

Sources:
1) http://www.newrepublic.com...
2) http://www.cnbc.com...'
3) http://www.economist.com...
4) (Jonathan S., National Security and Intelligence Correspondent, Knight Ridder/Tribune News Service, 3-10, Lexis)

Debate Round No. 1
harrytruman

Pro

Article 1 Section 8 Sentence 5 of the constitution states:
"Congress shall have the power; to coin money, regulate the value the rift, and of foreign coin, fix the standard weights and measures"
My alternative is what we had in 1912, before the Fed, congress would issue United states notes of necessary, and the treasury would issue silver and gold certificates, this is easily verifiable, I would also like to add that from 1832 to 1872 the dollatlost 1/6 it's value, from 1940 to 1980 it lost 5/6 its value, the Fed multiplied inflation by 5,
It is also easily verifiable that a very loose monetary policy, followed by an quick switch to a excessively strict monetary policy resuts in a crash. This is how the Fed did it.
And if the Fed is an economic institution, how would it cause a nuclear war?
asi14

Con

The order is: Counterplan, DA, then Case.
Counterplan
The pro has conceded the entirety of the counterplan, thus the counterplan solves the entirety of the case. No new arguments in the last speech.
DA
The DA outweighs and turns the case. It outweighs on magnitude, since nuclear war causes the extinction of humanity (this was not contested). It outweighs on timeframe and probability, as those two were not contested.

The only thing the pro does contest about the Disad is the Internal Link. It doesn't matter whether or not the Federal Reserve is an economic institution. For it to be repealed it must pass through congress. Extend my CNBC evidence which does a detailed analysis of what it would take to repeal the Federal Reserve, evidence the pro has not contested. That alone is sufficient to trigger the rest of the internal link chain (Repealing federal reserve --> no TPP --> no asia pivot --> massiv economic meltdown, --> nuclear war), which I remind the voters, the pro hasn't contested.
Case
The pro still does not provide any evidence that supports his claims. Vote con on evidence since at least I have provided evidence in my first speech.

The pro begins by proposing an alternative, by embracing the 1912 system. Consider this: the old system functioned in a very different economic system. This system would very likely fall apart within minutes in modern-day economics.

Lastly, the pro tries to attribute the Federal Reserve to a major economic crash. I can tell you for sure the Federal Reserve was not responsible. Let's start with the Great Depression. It was caused primarily by usage of money that didn't exist, creating a bubble that popped on Black Thursday. [1] The Great Recession of 2008 was caused primiarly by the fall of the Lehman Brothers Corporation [2]. None of these examples involved the Federal Reserve. All of the pro's claims are unwarrented, vote con.

1) http://www.ushistory.org...
2) https://muddywatermacro.wustl.edu...

Debate Round No. 2
harrytruman

Pro

I would like for my opponent to rebuttal in an organized fashion, such as numbering his debates please? Here is my opponents arguments:
1.Da, opponent argues that ending the Fed will start a nuclear war.
My response:
The Fed has nothing to do with nuclear war, my opponent fails to explain the correlation.
Opponents argument:
2. Case, my opponent argues that the gold standard would ruin our economic system.
My response:
It will not, all the gold standard Wil do is decrease inflation, which will in a chain of events, heal our economy.
Opponents argument:
3. My opponent says the crashes are not the Fed's fault.
My response:
A loose monetary policy will result in more loans, people loan money, since more money equals more available spending cash, and there is a lot of money in the system, profits soar, (the money isn't worth as much which is why relative to how many $ it seams like it but they are actually getting as much money as before) so stock value soars (it costs more, inflation due to all the money) so people buy into it thinking that it's cost will increase more later, and they can earn a profit from selling it, producing a bubble, the bubble pops, were in a depression.
Housing crash:
The Fed issues a lot of money, inflation, houses cost more and keep increasing, people buy into the bubble, it pops, were in a depression, every one with a kindergarten level education in economics knows this.
asi14

Con

The order is: DA, CP, Case.
DA
Nuclear war is the biggest impact in this debate! The pro has conceded the entire impact analysis I made in the last speech, thus the DA outweighs and turns the case. The pro has completely dropped the internal link chain of the DA, and has it wrong. He claims the Federal Reserve has no relevance to nuclear war. He's right in that their is no direct link, but the Internal Link Chain doesn't use a direct link. It uses the failure of the Asia Pivot to ensure nuclear war.
CP:
Throughout this entire debate, the Counterplan goes uncontested. Thus the CP solves the entirety of the affirmative, PLUS the TPP DA.

Case:
The pro throughout this entire debate has not given an iota of evidence. Even if his arguments sound logical, I stress that the only arguments accepted in debates are backed-up arguments, which are not arguments of the pro.

Next, the pro claims I said "gold standard would ruin our economic system". Neither I nor the pro has ever uttered the words "gold standard", and to say with confidence "gold standards" would fix our economy is unrwarrented since it's 2015, not 1912, something the pro dropped.

Even if the explanation the pro offers looks good, it fails to explain a few things. First, the explanation doesn't explain how usage of "fake money" led to a spending bubble in the Great Depression (see my evidence). Second, the housing crash certainly isn't the only crash of the Great Recession, something the pro lacks to explain.

So not only is the pro's case unwarrented and dead, it causes nuclear war, and can be solved w/o nuclear war by doing the plan via. the U.S. Mint. Vote con.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by WAM 1 year ago
WAM
The federal reserve act, enacted in 1913 by Congress, created the federal reserve system and granted it the legal authority to issue federal reserve notes (US dollars).

So, as congress enacted it, they could also amend it, which thus means that congress is in control of the federal reserve.

Also, it's your and not you're.

I think you should do your research before you try to lecture others.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
No congress is not, the federal reserve board of governors are, I recommend you research you're topic first.
Posted by WAM 1 year ago
WAM
"Congress shall have the power; to coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, fix the standard weights and measures"
And? Congress is in control of the Federal Reserve, hence why it is called 'Federal'. They even brought it to life. Thus this is not in violation of the constitution.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
"Congress shall have the power; to coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, fix the standard weights and measures"
Posted by asi14 1 year ago
asi14
If you don't answer, I'll put out my opening arguments irregardless.
Posted by asi14 1 year ago
asi14
Cross-X:
1) Do you have any evidence that any of your statistics are actually true?
2) Do you have any other options besides the Federal Reserve?
3) Does the plan pass through Congress?
4) Why can't the U.S. Mint do the plan?
Posted by WAM 1 year ago
WAM
How does it violate 'article 1 section 8 sentence 5 of the constitution' (what sentence you mean isn't clear though)?
Nor is it privately owned...
Also, what are those 'unconstitutional' powers it apparently holds?
No votes have been placed for this debate.