The Instigator
natoast
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Zaradi
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points

everything that I think is factual is factual.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Zaradi
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/25/2012 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 875 times Debate No: 27491
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

natoast

Pro

here is the logical basis for my assumption:

The only difference between what is factual and what I think is factual is what others think is factual. Therefore, if I think that others think that what I think is factual actually is factual, then everything I think is factual will be factual.
Zaradi

Con

The problem with that is it's commiting the Argument from Popularity fallacy, being that if everyone thinks that something is factual, then it is factual. We can see the flaw in this because if everyone thought that the earth was flat, the earth obviously wouldn't spontaneously become flat. So even if you thought that everyone thought your thoughts were fact, that wouldn't make them fact.

But moreover, your thought in no way controls the thoughts of everyone else. Presuming it wasn't commiting Ad Populum, going about that chain of thought would just leave you that you thought everyone agreed with you, and that would just be your subjective opinion. There would be no way to verify, however, if you were actually right.

Therefore, you're wrong.

1000 character debate for the win :D
Debate Round No. 1
natoast

Pro

what is a 'fact' and what actually is are not always the same thing. I'm not saying that when I believe something that that thing actually is, I'm just saying it is fact. What was considered scientific fact 100 years ago is considered ridiculous today, as what is considered scientific fact today will most likely be considered ridiculous 100 years from now. so if you accept that 'factual' means not what actually is, but what is the accepted description of reality as humans know it at any given time, it allows for my argument.
On your second point, when I say I think that others think that what I think is true is true, I don't mean it is my opinion. I mean from my perspective, others actually do think that; I believe that it is a fact. So, according to the above definition of factual, from my frame of reference it is universally agreed upon that whatever I think is true is a fact. And because I have no other frame of reference to compare it to, I can only conclude that my theory is true.
Zaradi

Con

A fact cannot be based off of subjective opinion. To do that would invalidate it as a fact and make it a theory or opinion, since facts are of an objective reality(1), meaning they never change. Again, we believed that the earth was flat a long time ago, yet that was just our belief as we had no way of confirming it. Now we can confirm that the earth is round. My Ad Populum argument stands.

Moreover your response to the Ad Populum argument doesn't even respond to my argument but only re-entrenches yourself in it. Double-whammy.

You say that your view is not your opinion, but it's just from your perspective. In this situation, those are exactly the same thing. From your perspective, everyone may agree with you, but your perspective can always be wrong. I may have the perspective that invisible pink unicorns exist, but my perspective can still be wrong. Just having one perspective to see things from does not automatically confirm that one perspective is true.

I win. Source in comments.
Debate Round No. 2
natoast

Pro

I believe that you believe that I am correct, so I am.
Zaradi

Con

Thanks for the concession (and repeating the Ad Populum fallacy).

And no, I think your idea is bug-house nuts.

I win.
Debate Round No. 3
natoast

Pro

natoast forfeited this round.
Zaradi

Con

y u forfeit
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by natoast 4 years ago
natoast
I didn't respond in time, that what was an accidental forfeit.
Posted by natoast 4 years ago
natoast
Just in case you thought I was crazy, I don't actualy believe in this theory. I just thought it could lead to an interesting discussion.
Posted by Zaradi 4 years ago
Zaradi
Source:

" a piece of information presented as having objective reality"
http://www.merriam-webster.com...
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by MochaShakaKhan 4 years ago
MochaShakaKhan
natoastZaradiTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: This guy checked out halfway through the debate. all point to Zaradi.
Vote Placed by emj32 4 years ago
emj32
natoastZaradiTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Well that was fun