The Instigator
Pheidippies
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
DoctorDeku
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

extracurricular activity

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
DoctorDeku
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/22/2012 Category: Education
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,585 times Debate No: 28531
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (3)

 

Pheidippies

Pro

USA schools should get rid of extracurricular activity. I am pro getting rid of extracurricular activities.
DoctorDeku

Con

1. Introduction-
a. As one who attributes most if not all of his academic success to having been involved in debate during high school, and as one who is currently pursuing a degree in speech education to become a debate teacher I wholeheartedly accept this debate.
b. Pro has made no constructive arguments as of this point, so I will not do so either. I will however present some definitions and topical analysis that Pro may address during his next round. I ask that this analysis be considered in equal standing towards any analysis of the Pro presents, as it was made before any analysis from pro.

2. Definitions-
Extracurricular Activity- "educational activities not falling within the scope of the regular curriculum."[1]
Should- "a good idea."[2]
[1] http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu...
[2] self-defined

These definitions are offered for the clarity and understanding of any readers of this debate. They are not meant as voting issues and I welcome my opponent to object to them as he sees fit. However I do ask that if my opponent does indeed reject to any of my definitions, that he provide an alternative for the clarity of myself and the readers.

3. Topical Analysis-
a. Pro offers little to no clarification as to the scope or intention of the resolution; does he mean both public and private schools? Are colleges included? Are we dealing with all extracurricular activities or just a few of them? Unless this is clarified in the next round the Con only needs to prove one instance where extracurricular activities are beneficial for there to be justification in voting Pro.

b. As pro states himself, this resolution deals only with the United States. Accordingly any argument which deals with another country's school system should be disregarded as irrelevant.

4. Conclusion-
a. I look forward to a fun debate! I hope that pro responds quickly and that the framework I present here is acceptable for an informative and thought provoking discourse.
Debate Round No. 1
Pheidippies

Pro

I would like to thank DoctorDeku for accepting the debate. I would like to accept my opponent the definitions that CON has presented the jury and me. Pro meanings the following for USA School which include both public and private school (kindergarten thru 12th grade) and including college and it is also including all extracurricular activities that schools provided. I hope this provide the voters and Pro more clarified.

The USA ranked 1st at the 2012 Olympics games in count of medals. The USA had 104 totals medals out of 962. This is 10% of all medals. The USA had 46 gold medals out of 302. This is 15% of all gold medals. Source: (http://en.wikipedia.org...).

The USA ranked 1st place in music industry with US Recoding Industry revenue of $4.9 Billion in 2012. Source:
(http://www.grabstats.com...)

The USA ranked 1st place in all sports industry (This includes Pro, Colleges, High School, and little leagues) with $25.4 Billion in 2012. Source: http://www.wrhambrecht.com...

The NCAA has 16,000 foreign athletes on NCAA roster in 2006-2007
Source: (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...)

Education is the main reason why we send our children to schools. United States of America kids rank in the middle of the pack for mathematics and science. They are barely in the top 15 in the TIMSS ranking.
Source: http://nces.ed.gov...

The 2012 Nobel laureates in physiology or medicine, literature and peace are not form USA. Source: (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

The most recent Field Medal was not from USA
Source: (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

As you can see CON, the USA school systems are failing its purpose of education its population and are more interesting in its extracurricular activities.
DoctorDeku

Con

1. Introductions-
I thank my opponent for their clarifications!

2. Framework-
As of last round it is now possibly to more clearly assign burdens in this debate. That said Pro's burden is to show that all public and private schools K-12 in the US should do away with their extracurricular activities. If I can show even one reason not to do away with even one extracurricular activity than the vote should go to the Con.

For clarity I will first address Pro's opening remarks and then will provide a few of my own.

3. Refutations-
By my opponent's own admission American excels in the fields of music and sports. In these two fields alone Con shows that the United States benefits by roughly $30.3 Billion dollars annually. Employment in the music industry includes performers, managers, producers, accountants, engineers, booking agents and even education development[3]. Doing anything to prohibit students from pursuing interests in these fields could undeniably harm employment in these industries. Warner Media even teams up with college students to assist in production of their media and pays them to listen to music and help figure out what people enjoy hearing.
[3] http://us.music-jobs.com...
[4] http://www.wmg.com...
The impact here is that an exposure to these interests at a young age encourages and feeds this interest. Cutting these programs could potentially put the jobs of millions of people in jeopardy.

As for sports the same arguments apply, if not more so. Hundreds, if not thousands of college students are put through their schooling because of scholarships to play for university athletic teams. Many of these students would not be able to afford their education if not for the scholarships they received to play on these teams.
These students go on to a plethora of careers which help to advance science, medicine and technology in the United States. In fact, Dr. Neil Tyson was the captain of his high school wrestling team as well as editor in chief of his school's news paper[5].
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org...

Finally, dealing opponent's final three arguments it is clear that there is no correlation between involvement in extracurricular activities and poor academic achievement, if anything extracurricular involvement benefits academic achievement (which I will warrant further with in my constructive).
The Noble Laureates and Field Medalist arguments are also nonsequitar to my opponent's initial line of logic, there isn't a link between not being recognized for an award an being involved in extracurricular activities; and Aside from that, six of the 2012 Nobel Laurettes actually are from the from the U.S.; Alvin E. Roth, Lloyd Shapley, David J. Wineland, Brian Kobilka and Robertkowitz.

4. Constructive-
The University Interscholastic League (hereafter UIL) in Texas lead the way for state-sponsored academic competition,[6] sponsoring 22 high-school level academic events as well as 18 different junior high and elementary level contests. The activities include, among others: Accounting, Literary Criticism, Science, LD debate and Policy debate. This isn't even paying mind to the music and athletic competitions that UIL hosts.
[6] http://www.uiltexas.org...

This competition gives public-school students all across the state of Texas the opportunity compete in activities they otherwise couldn't, and the benefit is glaringly obvious; as a former UIL competitor myself I can contest that involvement in these activities motivated me to succeed in school as I practiced for my number sense and debate competitions.

We also see organizations such as the National Forensics League[7] churning out intelligent and qualified students who through their competitions have learned valuable research and people skills[8].
[7] https://www.nationalforensicleague.org...
[8] https://www.nationalforensicleague.org...

Beyond those two (which I only mention first as I myself had the privilege of being involved in them) we see that there is a plethora of evidence suggesting that participation in just about any extracurricular activity helps students to succeed[9]. Involvement in these activities give students focus on their main course work as it allows them to practically apply what they're learning in the classroom. It even encourages students who otherwise wouldn't concentrate on their studies by giving them incentive to work harder; when they have something to look forward to they take care of their schoolwork lest they risk disqualification.
[9] http://dc.cod.edu...

5. Conclusion-
I could go on forever, but I believe I've proven my point. Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 2
Pheidippies

Pro

Refutations
My opponent is correct that the burden of proved is to show all public and private school K-12 in US should do away with their extracurricular activities. Also, my opponent is correct that there is no evidence supporting extracurricular activities hinders US public and private schools K-12 students for staying in school and wanting to go to school. However, my opponent has forgotten to mention the following facts about public and private school K-12. Only 32% of all students leave high school qualified to attend four-year colleges. Due to their lower college readiness rates, black and Hispanic students are seriously underrepresented in the pool of minimally qualified college applicants. Only 9% of all college ready graduates are black and another 9% are Hispanic, compared to a total population of 18-year olds that is 14% black and 17% Hispanic. The portion of all college freshmen that is black (11%) or Hispanic (7%) is very similar to their shares of the college-ready population (9% for both). This suggests that the main reason these groups are underrepresented in college admissions is that these students are not acquiring college ready skills in the K-12 system, rather than inadequate financial aid or affirmative action policies [6].The UIL in Texas and NHFS governed agencies in other states is great idea for the short term fix of US school systems to keep students in school however it does fix the real issue.

Constructive
The economy of the US has become more globalization and are extracurricular activities helping teaching our students to be completive with our foreign counterparts. The answer is no. Eventually, our foreign counterparts will overtake US College in education. The con side is looking at extracurricular activities as short term plan and not as long term plan. One case study that is similar to education is crime. Legalization of abortion in the United States by the Supreme Court decision of Roe versus Wade in 1973 reduced major crime (Murder, Manslaughter, Rap, Assault with intent to commit murder, Arson, Burglary, and Larceny in 1980s [1]. It has continued to decrease with each year after the 1980s. Major Crime won"t go away yet we have not seen the percent of major crimes at the high level since Supreme Court case.

Also, in 1976-1977, 15,714 non-residents of the US received a bachelor"s degree out of total of 917,900 bachelor"s degrees. The percent is 1.71%. In 2008-2009, 45,883 non residents of the US received a bachelor"s degree out of total of 1,601,368 bachelors". The percent is 2.87%. Over the 32 years, the number of non-residents has risen .04%. In 2015-2016, the percent will be 3.11% of non-residents. It will continue to rise. I used a liner regression line to calculate this figure however, the graph is closer to higher degree polynomial and this will number jump more dramatic in the coming years with recent news about international students enrolling in US colleges [3]. The number of international students enrolled in United States colleges climbed 6% to a record 764,495 last year and most of these international college students where from China [2].
Chinese children are better educated than American children in the STEM fields -- science, technology, engineering and math. High standards and high expectations are the norm in China, not the exception, as is often the case in the United States. [5] Chinese students in good stead in math-intensive programs like business and engineering, two of the most popular majors for Chinese students. Indeed, some of China's undergraduates are strong enough to land spots at the nation's most selective institutions; Harvard had about 40 in the 2010-11 academic years [4]. Eventually, other countries will take over US College and the models of US having extracurricular are over.

Sources
[1] http://www.freakonomics.com...
[2] http://www.usatoday.com...
[3] http://nces.ed.gov...
[4] http://chronicle.com...
[5] http://www.cnn.com...
[6] http://www3.northern.edu...
DoctorDeku

Con

1. Refutations-
This speech will be a brief one as there isn't much to actually refute. My opponent presents a good deal of evidence showing that minorities are underrepresented in secondary education, and that a good deal of people leave the school system unready for college, but none of that evidence points to the solution being that schools should do away with extracurricular activities.

I show clear evidence which was not responded to that involvement in extracurricular activities help students get ready for, and succeed in college. I also show that extracurricular activities help students to achieve more and do better in school than just going to class does.

My evidence from UILtexas.org[6] clearly show that involvement in academic competition is an encouraging factor for students to pursue academic excellence. Competition is Science, number sense and calculator applications give students a motivation to want to study, they're rewarded for their efforts.

2. Conclusion-
As my opponent said in their last speech, we do need to work on reforming the education system, but none of their evidence or logic points to saying that doing away with extracurricular activities will accomplish this. Those activities take nothing away from a student's main schooling benefits and in fact provide them with invaluable benefits. alongside their usual school work.
Debate Round No. 3
Pheidippies

Pro

Refutations
The top countries in education such as South Korea, Norway, Japan, China and most of the eastern Asia countries have a culture of education and not a culture of extracurricular actives like the USA does [4]. Chinese students spent significantly more time than American students engaged in academic endeavors, such as attending school and after-school classes and studying. Japanese students did not spend significantly more time studying or attending after-school classes than American students, but they did spend more time attending school. American students, in turn, spent more time working and socializing with friends [5]. Most experts, is the level of support for education within the surrounding culture. Although cultural change is inevitably complex, it can be brought about in order to promote better educational outcomes [1]. We have a culture of sports and extracurricular activities. Most UIL extracurricular activities in Texas have and allow periods in the day just for those extracurricular activities like Band, Athletics, Number Sense, Debate, Theatre, and Academic Decathlon [3]. Principals can improve the academic climate of their schools by setting educational objectives and eliminating extracurricular programs hindering their realization. Recommendations include scheduling extracurricular activities outside the school day, minimizing non-instructional uses of class time, and restructuring administration to allow principals more time for instructional concerns [2].

Sources
[1] http://thelearningcurve.pearson.com...
[2]http://www.eric.ed.gov...
[3] UILtexas.org
[4] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[5] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com...
DoctorDeku

Con

There are two principles which stand in con's favor, the first is correlation and causation and the next is simple misinterpretation.

Con shows that successful foreign schools in China, Japan and Korea have a bigger focus on school general, and that's true. But it's also true that students in these cultures have a bigger reason to want to succeed in school as their society places a bigger emphasis on academic success. However to assert that these schools do not participate in extracurricular activities is a fallacy in the worst form
Japan's schools place a huge emphasis on extracurricular activities[10], and many schools in Japan even require their students to participate in extracurricular activities[11]. The same is true for China[12] and Norway[13] (given Norway's extracurricular activities aren't directly associated with the schools.
[10] http://spice.stanford.edu...
[11] http://www.mext.go.jp...
[12] http://www.chinaeducenter.com...
[13] http://www.afsusa.org...

South Korean schools on the other hand face harsh criticism for their lack of (among other things) extracurricular activities[14].
[14] http://newpol.org...

As for the UIL requiring that time be set aside in the school day to practice, this is neither true nor a bad thing even if it were true. Many public texas schools do sponsor 'UIL classes' where students have the time to practice for their respective events, but it's more of an optional thing for the schools than a requirement. Texas schools require students to take so many elective hours in order to graduate, and it's better to take an elective class that prepares you to participate in science, social studies or literary criticism than a class that would have not impact on the student.

The end-all point here, is that Pro provides no compelling argument as to why US schools should get rid of their extracurricular activities. Pro consistently drops arguments and instead presents irrelevant evidence claim that a problem exists that doesn't
Extracurricular activities provide students with valuable life skills as well as academic ways to occupy their time. They provide students with the financial means to attend college as well as the academic skills they need to excel once there

I urge you to vote Con, and I hand it back over to my opponent for the final round.
Debate Round No. 4
Pheidippies

Pro

Members of the voting population, CON will say that I, Pro, have not made no compelling argument as to why US schools should get rid of their extracurricular activates and have presented many irrelevant evidences claim that a problem exists that doesn"t really exist. I will take you back to the opening statement of CON that he made about the definition of extracurricular activates is educational activates not falling within the scope of the regular curriculum. Are these extracurricular activities not within the scope of regular curriculum? Yes, they are by CON own submission in round 2, round 3, and round 4 of UIL academics in Texas argument. The UIL academics don"t do completions that are not in TEA curriculum (TEKS). These TEKS fall within the scope of regular curriculum. My opponent, CON, will state I am making another irrelevant argument in the final round and will ask that I lose conduct points for this. However, it is not irrelevant argument just stated CON own submission of guilty that Extracurricular Activity should be getting rid in US Schools.

Here are the facts of the case:
In Round 2 and Round 4, I, Pro, shown that ALL extracurricular activities do benefit students to a degree although at what cost of the public, students, schools and economy. Cost at weights the benefit in this case.

In Round 3, I, Pro, shown that US school model of extracurricular activities is not preparing our students for college readiness especially the minorities.

Finally, until we turn around American culture towards education (round 4), this is why we should get rid of extracurricular activities.
DoctorDeku

Con

Pro still doesn't show how doing away with extracurricular activities would have any benefit on US students. Not only that, but they outright drop the arguments made last round concerning China, Japan, Korea and Norway. Pro fails to refute the arguments I offer showing that participation in extracurricular activities is a motivator for students to work harder in succeeding in their school work.

Also I would like to clarify that when I define extracurricular activities as those not falling within the regular curriculum, there is no contradiction here when considering the TEA curriculum (TEKS). For those unaware TEA is the curriculum undertaken by Public High school students in the state of Texas; It includes, among other things, 4 Years of English, Science, Math and Social studies. UIL, athletic and other classes are not a part of this required curriculum, but electives that students may choose to take.

Ultimately Pro has shown evidence detailing how US schools are in poor standing with other countries, but never doing away with extracurricular activities will solve this problem. On the other hand, I show that involvement in UIL readies kids for college as well as motives them to focus more on their studies.

Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by drafterman 4 years ago
drafterman
PheidippiesDoctorDekuTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: It seems to me that Pro essentially conceded the argument: " Also, my opponent is correct that there is no evidence supporting extracurricular activities hinders US public and private schools K-12 students for staying in school and wanting to go to school."
Vote Placed by Chuz-Life 4 years ago
Chuz-Life
PheidippiesDoctorDekuTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: I was inclined to agree with Pro prior to this exchange and I still sympathize with the concerns and arguments of Pro. However, the ends do not justify the means in this case. I agree with Con in that is extracurricular activities are not to blame for the stat's quoted by Con. We can have a higher emphasis (and value) placed on greater academic achievement without sacrificing the extra activities. One way is to require better grades and grade point averages for students to have access to the extracurricular programs.
Vote Placed by The_Master_Riddler 4 years ago
The_Master_Riddler
PheidippiesDoctorDekuTied
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Reasons for voting decision: pro doesnt prove that the removal of extra curriculum act. will benefit students